Meeting Title: ABC Project Debrief and Planning Date: 2025-12-01 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Robert Tseng, Surfield Thomas, Jr.
WEBVTT
1 00:03:56.580 ⇒ 00:03:57.310 Robert Tseng: I did.
2 00:03:59.350 ⇒ 00:04:00.210 Uttam Kumaran: Yo!
3 00:04:01.850 ⇒ 00:04:04.149 Uttam Kumaran: I didn’t think I’d be saying hi to you today.
4 00:04:06.080 ⇒ 00:04:06.879 Uttam Kumaran: How’d it go?
5 00:04:08.110 ⇒ 00:04:13.810 Robert Tseng: I mean, surf… Wanted to bump it back to this call, so…
6 00:04:14.620 ⇒ 00:04:16.009 Robert Tseng: I didn’t talk to him again.
7 00:04:16.350 ⇒ 00:04:16.930 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
8 00:04:18.010 ⇒ 00:04:26.730 Uttam Kumaran: I have been… I have been going straight since… 8.30. I have not blinked.
9 00:04:27.410 ⇒ 00:04:28.030 Robert Tseng: Wow.
10 00:04:28.740 ⇒ 00:04:31.220 Uttam Kumaran: I’m jacked, dude, today went great.
11 00:04:31.740 ⇒ 00:04:32.579 Robert Tseng: That was $1,000.
12 00:04:32.580 ⇒ 00:04:38.590 Uttam Kumaran: sick. Dude, the ABC thing was sick. It’s… really, the tough part is gonna be where to start.
13 00:04:38.700 ⇒ 00:04:45.240 Uttam Kumaran: Like, they… one, dude, they’re a huge business. Like, $150 million?
14 00:04:45.420 ⇒ 00:04:46.610 Robert Tseng: Okay.
15 00:04:47.470 ⇒ 00:04:49.430 Uttam Kumaran: They are…
16 00:04:50.890 ⇒ 00:04:59.199 Uttam Kumaran: I have a lot of great detail in the notes, but they are 80% residential, 20% commercial. They do no marketing on the commercial side of the business.
17 00:05:00.800 ⇒ 00:05:03.419 Uttam Kumaran: They spent… they basically…
18 00:05:04.070 ⇒ 00:05:10.299 Uttam Kumaran: They sort of run the business, like, super budget-based, so they’re, like, 4% of the budget, Goes to marketing.
19 00:05:10.660 ⇒ 00:05:11.210 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
20 00:05:11.400 ⇒ 00:05:18.480 Uttam Kumaran: And they’re like, we added that, we expect, like, 8-10% growth, and we’re hoping for 10-15%
21 00:05:18.750 ⇒ 00:05:23.079 Uttam Kumaran: like, at the bottom line, you know, out the door. Yeah. Or whatever.
22 00:05:23.220 ⇒ 00:05:27.010 Uttam Kumaran: So, very, very simply, like, run.
23 00:05:27.260 ⇒ 00:05:31.400 Uttam Kumaran: That being said, they do have the problem of, like, the CEO…
24 00:05:31.520 ⇒ 00:05:37.540 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, one, it’s like a sort of family business, like, Matt the CFO, these guys are all, like, homies.
25 00:05:37.900 ⇒ 00:05:43.829 Uttam Kumaran: And so one is, like, they have this shiny object syndrome, especially from, like, an elder CEO who’s, like.
26 00:05:44.100 ⇒ 00:05:51.010 Uttam Kumaran: oh yeah, I heard, like, we should go do this thing, like, we should go push this thing. So one is, like, I think I haven’t…
27 00:05:51.320 ⇒ 00:05:56.640 Uttam Kumaran: I haven’t, like, sort of called that out too much, but one of his frustrations has been, like, hey, I…
28 00:05:56.740 ⇒ 00:06:01.979 Uttam Kumaran: I’ve been trying to push this idea of, like, when people move into homes, like, we should get something from ABC. I’m like.
29 00:06:02.190 ⇒ 00:06:16.699 Uttam Kumaran: That’s great, like, that’s a great idea, but what I want to talk more about is, like, how long would it take us to get around that idea? Is that idea sized properly? How many ideas can we run? So I’m trying to show them that, like, I’m less… I less care about, like, what
30 00:06:17.210 ⇒ 00:06:20.070 Uttam Kumaran: The campaigns are more about, like.
31 00:06:20.440 ⇒ 00:06:33.719 Uttam Kumaran: what is our capacity to run campaigns? Who would own that? So I’m… so today was really good. I got a… they also have really interesting segmentation. One, they’re in… they have 3 different types of,
32 00:06:34.320 ⇒ 00:06:35.460 Uttam Kumaran: Districts.
33 00:06:35.460 ⇒ 00:06:37.370 Robert Tseng: So they have our.
34 00:06:37.750 ⇒ 00:06:45.529 Uttam Kumaran: Not districts, branches. So, Austin is, like, $100 million.
35 00:06:45.650 ⇒ 00:06:52.810 Uttam Kumaran: San Antonio is 30, and then the next nearest are, like, 5 to 10, and they have, like, 6 of them that are, like, 1 million each.
36 00:06:52.890 ⇒ 00:07:09.960 Uttam Kumaran: like, Corpus Christi, some of these smaller Texas towns, where they have a ton of penetration, but, like, they’re just smaller markets. So they have some interesting customer segmentation. Austin, they have huge penetration, but they’re stagnating growth. San Antonio.
37 00:07:10.400 ⇒ 00:07:21.229 Uttam Kumaran: they only make $30 million, but there’s a huge amount of upside, like, there’s much more ways. It is not clear that they’re doing any sort of modern lifecycle email.
38 00:07:21.610 ⇒ 00:07:26.189 Uttam Kumaran: Any sort of, like, True attribution, like, on the site.
39 00:07:26.360 ⇒ 00:07:40.250 Uttam Kumaran: they have a very poor online purchase funnel, like, you have… it’s like, they said they’re getting so few leads coming through that, and it’s, like, their… their whole process is, like, really shit, like, the whole UX for even buying this.
40 00:07:40.630 ⇒ 00:07:45.739 Uttam Kumaran: So there’s just a lot of stuff we can do. They’re very open, and they have a huge budget, like…
41 00:07:46.000 ⇒ 00:07:48.060 Uttam Kumaran: They’re getting 4%,
42 00:07:48.760 ⇒ 00:07:59.309 Uttam Kumaran: of, like, $150 million. So they basically have, like, anywhere from 5 to 10 million to spend on marketing every year, of which the CEO and the CFO
43 00:07:59.440 ⇒ 00:08:01.959 Uttam Kumaran: And the head of sales, and the head of…
44 00:08:02.060 ⇒ 00:08:04.499 Uttam Kumaran: San Antonio, don’t know how it’s being
45 00:08:04.840 ⇒ 00:08:15.219 Uttam Kumaran: allocated, they don’t know where their customer channels are, they don’t know their conversion rates, they don’t know, what the… the, like, they don’t know about SKU bundling, they don’t know about
46 00:08:15.220 ⇒ 00:08:30.559 Uttam Kumaran: their, like, LTVs, they don’t know about, like, they… they don’t have these, like, basic numbers. They have, like, anecdotally, they know that they have a really high conversion rate. Like, if they get on the phone, which is their primary channel of closing sales, it’s 70%, but there’s no, like, real digital
47 00:08:30.590 ⇒ 00:08:32.280 Uttam Kumaran: Sales, like, non-touch.
48 00:08:32.419 ⇒ 00:08:38.260 Uttam Kumaran: The other thing is, when you book an ABC call, and I’m gonna… I’m gonna do that later this week, just to, like.
49 00:08:38.490 ⇒ 00:08:45.289 Uttam Kumaran: figure out… I need… I’ll get them to come do something at the house, just to walk through the whole thing. But they,
50 00:08:45.330 ⇒ 00:09:03.879 Uttam Kumaran: they have an inspector come out. He comes out when you request, like, pests, but then his job is to actually come in and spot other things. Delivery-led sales. His job is to come and be like, oh, like, you guys… your garbage bins, like, dirty, your windows, like, look like crap, nobody put your lights up. You know, we do all these things, and…
51 00:09:04.130 ⇒ 00:09:09.600 Uttam Kumaran: And basically, they developed this thing called LeadLine, which is basically… those guys are commished heavily on
52 00:09:10.080 ⇒ 00:09:26.729 Uttam Kumaran: introducing those. However, after they sell that, basically, ABC’s biggest thing is they try to sell these maintenance packages. Hey, we’ll come out every 6 months to, like, do this or do that. In between those, there are no non-transactional emails or touchpoints.
53 00:09:28.520 ⇒ 00:09:32.600 Uttam Kumaran: Which I’m, like… they send out a weekly, like, newsletter about something.
54 00:09:32.740 ⇒ 00:09:37.319 Uttam Kumaran: And so there’s tons of room for…
55 00:09:37.570 ⇒ 00:09:43.489 Uttam Kumaran: for setting up, like, basic things. For us, I want us to, like.
56 00:09:44.680 ⇒ 00:09:49.420 Uttam Kumaran: I think, like, we could really do some damage, and there could be a lot of money, for sure.
57 00:09:50.150 ⇒ 00:09:55.260 Uttam Kumaran: So I just want to make sure that if we… we can measure, you know, as much of that as possible.
58 00:09:55.370 ⇒ 00:09:59.769 Uttam Kumaran: But I also… I want to take… I want to take Clarence with me to the next one.
59 00:10:00.120 ⇒ 00:10:08.679 Uttam Kumaran: like, maybe next week, I was like, dude, just come with me to this on-site, like, they’ll love you. And, I’m meeting, like, their head of CRM, I’m meeting…
60 00:10:08.870 ⇒ 00:10:14.240 Uttam Kumaran: And there’s, like, two or two people that I’ve met that I think could be, like, our…
61 00:10:14.590 ⇒ 00:10:20.860 Uttam Kumaran: actual, like, data people in the company. Okay. Like, some data and integration people, like, more mid-level.
62 00:10:20.980 ⇒ 00:10:26.689 Uttam Kumaran: And then I’m also getting just, like, I’m… I’m getting everybody on board at the higher level, so…
63 00:10:28.870 ⇒ 00:10:33.160 Uttam Kumaran: It was good, it was fun today. I mean, I spent, like, 5 hours with them. Nice.
64 00:10:33.370 ⇒ 00:10:40.940 Uttam Kumaran: And then this… I almost was late to this element thing, because the CEO, he walked in, and then the CFO walked in, and they’re just, like, all homies, so, like.
65 00:10:41.320 ⇒ 00:10:45.939 Uttam Kumaran: But then it can start just going in circles about, like, what we’re doing, what we’re not doing.
66 00:10:45.940 ⇒ 00:10:49.920 Robert Tseng: The head of sales is the CEO’s son, and then there’s CEO, his…
67 00:10:50.330 ⇒ 00:10:54.660 Uttam Kumaran: Gran… his dad started the business in, like, the 70s.
68 00:10:54.900 ⇒ 00:11:02.170 Uttam Kumaran: But, like… and they’ve just been adding services and services, they have 17 services, most of it’s concentrated to, like, 3.
69 00:11:02.400 ⇒ 00:11:03.599 Uttam Kumaran: 3 or 4?
70 00:11:03.730 ⇒ 00:11:07.659 Uttam Kumaran: But there’s, like, a long tail, like, they added pool cleaning, they added…
71 00:11:08.520 ⇒ 00:11:14.580 Uttam Kumaran: But they also, too, they don’t… the commercial contracts can be 5K to $30K a year. They don’t do any marketing.
72 00:11:14.740 ⇒ 00:11:16.080 Uttam Kumaran: for commercial.
73 00:11:16.330 ⇒ 00:11:31.929 Uttam Kumaran: And I was like, what… I was like, you don’t do any B2B marketing? They’re like, no, it’s, like, all, like, phone calls. I’m like, do you guys have any segmentation? Like, you have salespeople dedicated to, like, schools or hotels? They’re like, oh, no, that’s a good idea. Like, maybe we should have someone that just thinks I’m, like.
74 00:11:32.120 ⇒ 00:11:36.590 Uttam Kumaran: And I walked them through, kind of, what we’re thinking about, where it’s like, in our business, we’re thinking about these playbooks.
75 00:11:36.620 ⇒ 00:11:55.030 Uttam Kumaran: We’re thinking about, hey, you establish a motion around hotels, you think about what are the things we… we put together a hotel offering, we position ABC as the number one commercial service provider of X amount of services for hotels, you assign one guy to just… who’s an ex-hotel guy to come in and just do that.
76 00:11:55.030 ⇒ 00:11:59.379 Uttam Kumaran: And now you have a playbook to then, once he nails that, you then do it for the next industry.
77 00:11:59.660 ⇒ 00:12:04.019 Uttam Kumaran: And… Yeah, I don’t know, I just feel like this was… it was… it was great.
78 00:12:04.810 ⇒ 00:12:05.780 Uttam Kumaran: And…
79 00:12:06.080 ⇒ 00:12:21.010 Uttam Kumaran: they didn’t blink at all about the 30K, because these guys are trying to… really trying to throw the needle. The other thing that’s nice about this is that we don’t have to touch the delivery of the services at all. They’re actually…
80 00:12:22.470 ⇒ 00:12:29.309 Uttam Kumaran: Fine, they’re really good at that, you know, which… this is mainly focused on awareness and acquisition.
81 00:12:30.410 ⇒ 00:12:31.000 Robert Tseng: Okay.
82 00:12:32.380 ⇒ 00:12:33.230 Robert Tseng: Soul?
83 00:12:37.560 ⇒ 00:12:40.329 Uttam Kumaran: I wish you were here, you should come with us, it would be so fun.
84 00:12:40.440 ⇒ 00:12:41.250 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
85 00:12:41.890 ⇒ 00:12:47.279 Robert Tseng: Dude, maybe I will. So I got, I got, the,
86 00:12:47.700 ⇒ 00:12:51.640 Robert Tseng: I did a disco call with the Bible app, and
87 00:12:51.760 ⇒ 00:13:02.880 Robert Tseng: they’re… it was… it’s good timing, because they’re… they’re, putting out a couple RFPs for digital transformation projects that they’re kicking off in January. So, yeah, I think, like.
88 00:13:02.960 ⇒ 00:13:17.440 Robert Tseng: if I can get them a couple case studies, if I can get what you… you know, just some, like, rhetoric around, like, your work with Pray.com, and then also, my stuff with Abad and Guideposts, I think… I think we would… we’d be able to get in on… on that RFP.
89 00:13:18.710 ⇒ 00:13:26.989 Robert Tseng: I mean, they’re the biggest, they’re the biggest, they’re the biggest faith app in the world. Like, a billion downloads, 30 million users, daily users kind of thing, so…
90 00:13:26.990 ⇒ 00:13:27.819 Uttam Kumaran: What’s it called?
91 00:13:28.160 ⇒ 00:13:28.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
92 00:13:29.140 ⇒ 00:13:32.719 Robert Tseng: It just… you could just look up… it’s called UU version.
93 00:13:36.250 ⇒ 00:13:39.349 Robert Tseng: They’re based in Oklahoma City, yeah.
94 00:13:40.630 ⇒ 00:13:43.559 Uttam Kumaran: Let me text my… let me text some Christian friends about this.
95 00:13:45.750 ⇒ 00:14:05.179 Robert Tseng: Yeah. Yeah, I talked to the… it was great. This is the first time that, like, I feel like our team really got me the right stakeholder. Like, Hannah… Hannah spotted her, talked to the Chief Strategy Officer. She is the, she… she makes vendor decisions, so, like, it’s… she’s… she’s the right… she’s the exact person that we need to be talking to.
96 00:14:05.500 ⇒ 00:14:07.239 Robert Tseng: She’s gonna connect me to…
97 00:14:07.240 ⇒ 00:14:13.150 Uttam Kumaran: We talk a lot about the work we did for Prey. It’s a lot of, like, marketing, acquisition.
98 00:14:13.270 ⇒ 00:14:18.139 Uttam Kumaran: Like… mobile attribution…
99 00:14:18.860 ⇒ 00:14:27.090 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I’ll get you on the next call, but let’s just… I mean, I’ve told Hannah to kind of help drive, like, just putting together a couple case studies so I could shoot over a deck with them.
100 00:14:27.540 ⇒ 00:14:28.240 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
101 00:14:28.890 ⇒ 00:14:29.650 Uttam Kumaran: Sick.
102 00:14:36.870 ⇒ 00:14:40.579 Uttam Kumaran: The… the, Magic Spoon folks want to talk again.
103 00:14:42.970 ⇒ 00:14:44.130 Uttam Kumaran: Okay.
104 00:14:45.960 ⇒ 00:14:47.200 Uttam Kumaran: Thursday.
105 00:14:48.920 ⇒ 00:14:54.930 Uttam Kumaran: Are you… are you free for that? They basically want to meet… I’m gonna… now that Urban Stems is kind of winding down.
106 00:14:55.630 ⇒ 00:15:00.850 Uttam Kumaran: I guess I’ll probably bring Demolade and… Ashwini with me.
107 00:15:00.960 ⇒ 00:15:02.639 Robert Tseng: Okay. Maybe bring you…
108 00:15:02.960 ⇒ 00:15:08.320 Uttam Kumaran: it seems like… I mean, I don’t know, it’s not clear that they gawked at the price, I mean, I…
109 00:15:08.520 ⇒ 00:15:16.579 Uttam Kumaran: I wish I went higher. I basically said, I basically said 20K, for a month.
110 00:15:17.180 ⇒ 00:15:26.819 Uttam Kumaran: and then retainer. I gave them both our hourly rates and our… Package rates?
111 00:15:26.860 ⇒ 00:15:28.519 Robert Tseng: But I kind of want you there to…
112 00:15:28.520 ⇒ 00:15:36.020 Uttam Kumaran: to see, like, what else we can get them on the hook for, because I feel like it’s similar to a lot of these firms, where, like, Urban Sems, for example, was, like.
113 00:15:36.780 ⇒ 00:15:39.969 Uttam Kumaran: Our problem is, like, the modeling and this, but, like…
114 00:15:40.340 ⇒ 00:15:43.650 Uttam Kumaran: Hopefully, there’s some opportunity for, like, a larger thing, so…
115 00:15:43.650 ⇒ 00:15:44.899 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
116 00:15:45.030 ⇒ 00:15:47.339 Robert Tseng: I still think Urban Stems will come back. I think, I think…
117 00:15:47.340 ⇒ 00:15:48.040 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, no.
118 00:15:48.040 ⇒ 00:15:50.419 Robert Tseng: We spotted the right problem, yeah.
119 00:15:50.740 ⇒ 00:15:57.689 Uttam Kumaran: And his message was good. Zach’s a good guy, like, I think he’s… he’s basically like, I’m gonna fire some of these people to be a bunch of for you guys, which is kind of…
120 00:15:58.350 ⇒ 00:16:09.769 Uttam Kumaran: I mean, whatever. It’s not us. I feel bad, I don’t like talking about it like that, but they’re not doing… they’re not good enough, and I guess I get what this position Zach’s in, where…
121 00:16:13.240 ⇒ 00:16:19.269 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. I love starting a conversation off with a client is not good enough. That actually makes me really fucking happy.
122 00:16:19.300 ⇒ 00:16:27.000 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s not they’re not good enough, the teamwork that’s… the team that they’re comparing us to is not…
123 00:16:27.770 ⇒ 00:16:29.079 Uttam Kumaran: Can’t compare.
124 00:16:29.080 ⇒ 00:16:39.029 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, okay, cool, sweet. I mean, hey, sometimes you gotta tell the… sometimes a client is… a client’s not the right client, and that’s also a really good thing to talk about in business as well, so…
125 00:16:39.030 ⇒ 00:16:40.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
126 00:16:40.640 ⇒ 00:16:44.720 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Awesome, sweet. I mean, don’t You guys can keep chatting. I got time.
127 00:16:44.720 ⇒ 00:16:45.220 Uttam Kumaran: No.
128 00:16:45.220 ⇒ 00:16:46.030 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I think we…
129 00:16:46.030 ⇒ 00:16:49.329 Uttam Kumaran: do that. Robert, I just realized, I had this call with.
130 00:16:49.730 ⇒ 00:16:50.679 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I know.
131 00:16:50.680 ⇒ 00:16:52.229 Uttam Kumaran: Can I go and come back? Do you want to start.
132 00:16:52.230 ⇒ 00:16:56.999 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m just gonna chat with Cerf about Remo, I might drop off afterwards, I gotta…
133 00:16:57.110 ⇒ 00:17:00.469 Robert Tseng: I gotta… yeah, but it’s fine. We’ll… we’ll be on this call.
134 00:17:00.470 ⇒ 00:17:06.929 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay, stay on, I’m gonna try to… I’ll just see what the deal is and get back. I got time until, like, even 8 o’clock, so…
135 00:17:07.010 ⇒ 00:17:08.400 Robert Tseng: Okay, okay. I’m free.
136 00:17:08.400 ⇒ 00:17:10.009 Uttam Kumaran: Okay, I’ll be back, guys.
137 00:17:12.210 ⇒ 00:17:19.069 Robert Tseng: All right, Serf, yeah, don’t worry about what Adam’s saying, I think they’re just not on the same page, but Josh already said the proposal.
138 00:17:19.079 ⇒ 00:17:20.939 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I wasn’t… I wasn’t really worried about that.
139 00:17:21.710 ⇒ 00:17:22.270 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
140 00:17:23.550 ⇒ 00:17:29.689 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I guess he flagged because I called Cameron out, because I, like, I want to get this shit moving.
141 00:17:30.040 ⇒ 00:17:30.500 Robert Tseng: Yep.
142 00:17:30.500 ⇒ 00:17:45.939 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: basically today, which is why I was like, alright, let’s chat today, iron out the last of the details, and then, like, I want to start moving tomorrow, because, the team’s ready, and then I want to start moving on to them ASAP, because again, it’s like, the time, like, every day missed is, like.
143 00:17:46.290 ⇒ 00:17:59.749 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I’m just like, fuck, fuck, fuck, right? Because it’s like a… again, we have two months, but, like, the turnaround time is still way faster than I usually like on my product, so I want to make sure I get everything on the head. And especially because they’re already antsy about working with
144 00:17:59.750 ⇒ 00:18:09.139 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: someone like Cameron already, who kind of just, like, doesn’t give a fuck about a deadline. I’m like, I very much give a fuck about a deadline. So, yeah, it’s time to move.
145 00:18:09.270 ⇒ 00:18:10.759 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Cool. Okay. Alright.
146 00:18:11.380 ⇒ 00:18:13.100 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: You… you wanna shoot first?
147 00:18:13.730 ⇒ 00:18:32.479 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I’m here to just see you, kind of, like, how you’re thinking about approaching this week, next week, and then… so I know, kind of, like… I mean, I know that… I know our timeline, we’ve kind of gone through a high level, but, I know you’ve also put together that, Gantt chart, but yeah, I just kind of want to know, like, how you want me to support, for now.
148 00:18:32.480 ⇒ 00:18:32.840 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Gotcha.
149 00:18:32.840 ⇒ 00:18:36.740 Robert Tseng: I feel like I’m… I’m a little bit more hands-off until probably a couple weeks in.
150 00:18:36.970 ⇒ 00:18:44.350 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Got you. I think right now, it’s gonna be twofold. Give me 2 seconds.
151 00:18:44.520 ⇒ 00:18:45.210 Robert Tseng: Yep.
152 00:19:14.080 ⇒ 00:19:14.899 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, you there?
153 00:19:15.480 ⇒ 00:19:16.190 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah, I’m here.
154 00:19:16.190 ⇒ 00:19:16.760 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Hello?
155 00:19:17.330 ⇒ 00:19:17.659 Robert Tseng: Yeah, yeah.
156 00:19:17.660 ⇒ 00:19:18.620 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Robert, can you hear me?
157 00:19:18.890 ⇒ 00:19:19.860 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I can hear you.
158 00:19:19.860 ⇒ 00:19:22.090 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Awesome, sweet. Hold on, let me make sure my…
159 00:19:22.660 ⇒ 00:19:28.170 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Cause I can’t hear now. I think in this first week.
160 00:19:28.390 ⇒ 00:19:39.930 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I already know who the players are, but if I have any questions, you might have some more detailed information on, like, who I can get information from. I think this week is gonna be very much…
161 00:19:40.190 ⇒ 00:19:58.490 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Me getting the staging and prod environment up, and then onboarding the team to the, environment itself, so that we could really start running next week, because next week is when they are going to start, really trying to crank on the code.
162 00:19:58.520 ⇒ 00:20:15.789 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, starting tomorrow, right, like, I’ve already actually talked to them about the project and stuff like that, so I’ve already done that piece. But starting tomorrow, I wanna give them access to the codebase, which is why I shot for the meeting with Cameron at the tippy-top.
163 00:20:15.880 ⇒ 00:20:24.849 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Right? Because I need all of that stuff handed off, handed over, then me and him need to go into, scope mode around getting, the environment stood up.
164 00:20:25.390 ⇒ 00:20:40.679 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So this week is gonna basically be infrastructure setup, but I said it, if you look at the diagram for, like, those first two weeks. Again, depending on how painful the camera’s gonna make this shit, but again, I’ll solve it no matter what. So I think this week…
165 00:20:41.600 ⇒ 00:20:57.559 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I don’t know if I need major stuff from you, other than, like, like, the admin stuff you’ve been doing, so, like, handling the contracts, letting me know, I guess, when the money comes in, because I need to also… because, like, I also need to then pay them.
166 00:20:57.560 ⇒ 00:21:06.740 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, like, there’s, like, that whole flow of it all, so, like, I don’t know, like, what… when are they actually sending in the first check, that sort of thing, so I can, like, figure out the logistics on that side, to make.
167 00:21:06.740 ⇒ 00:21:07.060 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
168 00:21:07.060 ⇒ 00:21:08.809 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Those guys get paid, all that sort of stuff.
169 00:21:09.120 ⇒ 00:21:20.879 Robert Tseng: I expect to sign this week. I mean, I’m gonna… I’m gonna nudge every day until we sign, so hopefully we sign by tomorrow or Wednesday, and then we’ll do 50% up front, so you’ll be able to pay your guys, I think. Cool, sweet. Yeah.
170 00:21:20.890 ⇒ 00:21:21.900 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Awesome, sweet.
171 00:21:21.900 ⇒ 00:21:32.050 Robert Tseng: I think we do… they do, net 14 terms with us, so at latest, I think it maybe might take 2 weeks, but, just because they… For the payment to come in?
172 00:21:32.240 ⇒ 00:21:32.670 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
173 00:21:32.970 ⇒ 00:21:44.830 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, cool. That I need to know, because I need to tell the other guy that I pay for with the engineer, so that he knows, because then… because usually he’s used to getting his money up front.
174 00:21:44.930 ⇒ 00:21:46.320 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But I know him.
175 00:21:46.880 ⇒ 00:21:47.200 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
176 00:21:47.200 ⇒ 00:21:49.909 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I can ARB that.
177 00:21:49.910 ⇒ 00:21:59.120 Robert Tseng: I mean, I’ll try to push them to do faster, I’m just saying, like, as… I think because we do net 14 with them right now, like, they’ll probably… I feel like they’ll default to just sticking with that.
178 00:21:59.120 ⇒ 00:22:15.149 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay, yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Again, I’m cool with it, I just need to know, because I am… I… like, I signed a contract with him for them, so as long as the money comes through, everything’s good, like, I… That’s, again, that’s just the finalization of the paperwork.
179 00:22:15.270 ⇒ 00:22:20.810 Robert Tseng: Okay. Cool. Alright, cool. So then I will let him know that it’s net 14, starting…
180 00:22:21.170 ⇒ 00:22:28.929 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Well, whenever you tell me the go-ahead, and then I’m gonna start my work now with Cameron anyway tomorrow.
181 00:22:29.670 ⇒ 00:22:30.330 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
182 00:22:30.330 ⇒ 00:22:31.319 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, cool. Sweet.
183 00:22:31.820 ⇒ 00:22:32.580 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, I said…
184 00:22:32.580 ⇒ 00:22:39.870 Robert Tseng: already sent them the contract of signing, and then assuming they sign tomorrow, like, I’m gonna send the invoice right afterwards.
185 00:22:40.090 ⇒ 00:22:59.009 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, cool, sweet. Alright, so let me know when that hits, cause regardless, again, if there’s delays on that side of it, again, it’s just my time. But again, I don’t want… I don’t want everyone linked down the chain until they’ve signed, right? Like, ideally, I don’t think you would want that either.
186 00:22:59.430 ⇒ 00:23:00.150 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, yeah, yeah.
187 00:23:00.400 ⇒ 00:23:01.090 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Sweet.
188 00:23:02.620 ⇒ 00:23:03.440 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Awesome.
189 00:23:04.330 ⇒ 00:23:05.510 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I think that’s good.
190 00:23:05.960 ⇒ 00:23:06.530 Robert Tseng: Okay.
191 00:23:06.850 ⇒ 00:23:12.359 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And then, yeah, everything after that, the milestones are in there, so ideally after that.
192 00:23:13.350 ⇒ 00:23:15.310 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: First scope of delivery.
193 00:23:15.400 ⇒ 00:23:33.449 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: next payment, last scope of delivery, next payment, then it should be done. And then, I sent you what… I don’t know if you… I don’t think you sent that to them, and, like, you could decide on whatever you want to kind of do on that side, if they want to keep me, or if they just want to keep the engineers. Ideally, I would… like, those are the costs.
194 00:23:33.640 ⇒ 00:23:39.679 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But then, I’m assuming you add your kickers to that as well, and then you just send them whatever you want the consolidated pricing to be.
195 00:23:39.980 ⇒ 00:23:41.690 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: For the secondary scope.
196 00:23:42.470 ⇒ 00:23:43.340 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Gotcha.
197 00:23:43.590 ⇒ 00:23:51.260 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: For the first scope, it’s the numbers that we talked about, so it’s the same, same shit. So it’s gonna be 40 for these two months.
198 00:23:51.490 ⇒ 00:23:54.880 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And then after that, whatever they decide on, we scope down to that.
199 00:23:55.420 ⇒ 00:23:56.060 Robert Tseng: Yep.
200 00:23:56.060 ⇒ 00:23:56.590 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Cool.
201 00:23:58.550 ⇒ 00:23:59.290 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Sweet.
202 00:24:02.300 ⇒ 00:24:10.170 Robert Tseng: Okay, you’re also on the channel with the Jonah guy, who’s the main guy from Beluga, so I’m assuming you’ll be able to chat with him directly.
203 00:24:10.420 ⇒ 00:24:22.830 Robert Tseng: the other main players, anybody on the business side that you’ll want to talk to, I’ll… I’ll go grab… I can go grab them down, or I might already know more than they do, so you can kind of treat me as a smi on the business there. Yeah.
204 00:24:22.830 ⇒ 00:24:38.480 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, what I’ll do from that perspective is just over-vocalize to you, because I want you abreast anyway, because I know that some of the chefs need to hit the data, and I feel like if you guys know what’s going on, you can chime in with any of the stuff that fills the data, so I’ll just, like.
205 00:24:38.630 ⇒ 00:24:51.049 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: hyper… well, I think we’re gonna make a chat for everybody, including the engineers and all that stuff, but then I’ll hyper add, like, the agenda items to… well, should I use our client
206 00:24:51.180 ⇒ 00:24:53.449 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: One, or should we make another one?
207 00:24:53.790 ⇒ 00:24:55.580 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Cause, like, what I’m gonna do is, like…
208 00:24:55.710 ⇒ 00:24:59.079 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Have the syncs of, like, the stand-ups and that kind of stuff.
209 00:24:59.760 ⇒ 00:25:04.070 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: As well, so it’ll be like, it might be a little bit noisy, but, like, not super.
210 00:25:04.070 ⇒ 00:25:04.410 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
211 00:25:04.410 ⇒ 00:25:07.100 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But, like… like, daily updates?
212 00:25:07.560 ⇒ 00:25:10.360 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So I’m cool. Again, what I… do tell me your profile.
213 00:25:10.360 ⇒ 00:25:15.749 Robert Tseng: If you want a separate channel with your engineers on it, like, yeah, I’m fine with that.
214 00:25:16.480 ⇒ 00:25:26.700 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I know there’s… I know there are a lot of channels, like, people get excluded, there’s Cameron in this one, no Cameron in that one, the beluga guy here, yeah, whatever, but, like, whatever. We’ll make what makes sense for us.
215 00:25:26.700 ⇒ 00:25:27.160 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, cool.
216 00:25:27.160 ⇒ 00:25:27.690 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
217 00:25:28.640 ⇒ 00:25:29.570 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, dope.
218 00:25:30.430 ⇒ 00:25:31.030 Robert Tseng: Cool.
219 00:25:32.290 ⇒ 00:25:35.699 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: No problemo. Alright, ping me if you need anything.
220 00:25:36.170 ⇒ 00:25:36.810 Robert Tseng: Alright.
221 00:25:36.830 ⇒ 00:25:41.590 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Keep me abreast. I’m waiting for Cameron to fucking respond, as usual.
222 00:25:41.990 ⇒ 00:25:42.390 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
223 00:25:42.390 ⇒ 00:25:45.029 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: But regardless, I’ll get this shit solved.
224 00:25:45.600 ⇒ 00:25:47.570 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Because now, I’m on his ass.
225 00:25:47.980 ⇒ 00:25:48.750 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
226 00:25:49.870 ⇒ 00:25:57.620 Robert Tseng: You know, I might… I’m just gonna give you his number, so you can text him to… now, you don’t have to… I mean, you don’t have to text him now, but…
227 00:25:57.630 ⇒ 00:26:01.530 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Just so you can have it. Well, sweet. Actually, I have his number already.
228 00:26:01.880 ⇒ 00:26:02.680 Robert Tseng: Oh, do you? Okay.
229 00:26:02.680 ⇒ 00:26:12.629 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, I try to be nice and ping him on there, but I will fucking… because there was one night where, like, at 8pm, me and him were chatting. Right. So yeah, I’ll get up on that now.
230 00:26:12.790 ⇒ 00:26:15.549 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah, I mean, you have,
231 00:26:16.040 ⇒ 00:26:19.759 Robert Tseng: The floor is yours, so you kind of do what you need to do.
232 00:26:19.760 ⇒ 00:26:20.370 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Got you.
233 00:26:21.280 ⇒ 00:26:21.860 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
234 00:26:23.890 ⇒ 00:26:34.779 Robert Tseng: All right, well, yeah, I mean, I guess I can kind of, like… I know you were going to chat with Utam. Yeah, we just wanted to make sure that you felt good about… I mean, you know, you’re…
235 00:26:35.010 ⇒ 00:26:43.749 Robert Tseng: you have, Lilo Social, you have… you have this client. Yeah, I mean, we want to explore kind of working with you longer term, like, I think, you know.
236 00:26:43.780 ⇒ 00:26:59.169 Robert Tseng: I know it’s early, you’re just kicking off these projects with us, but, you know, it feels like we’ve given, you know, we’re able to bring you business, you know, at least for the next couple months. The Lilo one’s for 3 months, so, you know, two to three months… at least two to three months of work, and, you know, being able to…
237 00:26:59.250 ⇒ 00:27:05.690 Robert Tseng: You know, if this is something that you’re interested in kind of continuing, we’d love to find a way to be able to, like.
238 00:27:06.620 ⇒ 00:27:10.119 Robert Tseng: basically do more biz dev with… with you, so…
239 00:27:10.930 ⇒ 00:27:13.730 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I guess, how do you think about that?
240 00:27:13.730 ⇒ 00:27:21.670 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I… I love it. Me and Utah are my homeboys, so I don’t know if he told you about, like, our deep connection. Me and my homeboys worked at multiple companies together.
241 00:27:21.670 ⇒ 00:27:22.460 Robert Tseng: road days.
242 00:27:22.460 ⇒ 00:27:22.840 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Where…
243 00:27:22.990 ⇒ 00:27:38.499 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Well, me and him worked at WeWorkTogether, then we led product from two different angles at, what was it, Prequel together, and then at my company now, I brought him in to do data when he first started Brainforge.
244 00:27:38.630 ⇒ 00:27:39.319 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Oh, no.
245 00:27:39.320 ⇒ 00:27:39.960 Robert Tseng: away.
246 00:27:39.960 ⇒ 00:27:40.779 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, they…
247 00:27:40.780 ⇒ 00:27:43.160 Robert Tseng: You were the first public contract that you got?
248 00:27:43.160 ⇒ 00:27:44.949 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, we were one of their first contracts, yeah.
249 00:27:44.950 ⇒ 00:27:46.290 Robert Tseng: Okay, yeah.
250 00:27:46.290 ⇒ 00:28:03.869 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, like, he’s my guy. So, again, I’ve always wanted to figure some shit out. I’m glad we’re finally figuring some stuff out, and like, yeah, I love engineering, so, like, if I could run an engineering arm for you guys, it’d be fucking great. Like, just give me more…
251 00:28:08.660 ⇒ 00:28:10.020 Robert Tseng: Sorry, you cut out for a sec there.
252 00:28:10.020 ⇒ 00:28:10.929 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, yeah.
253 00:28:11.050 ⇒ 00:28:11.990 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I’m cool.
254 00:28:12.940 ⇒ 00:28:16.800 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I said, yeah, bring me more engineering, and I’ll get it done.
255 00:28:17.370 ⇒ 00:28:17.980 Robert Tseng: Okay.
256 00:28:18.210 ⇒ 00:28:37.899 Robert Tseng: Yeah, I mean, I think now that we’re going after bigger RFPs, it’s not just data work anymore, like, there’s two more that we’re talking… we’re pushing them off until 2026, but there’s an RFP, you know, once we get the details, like, I’ll probably loop you into it, but, what I discussed today was basically,
257 00:28:38.390 ⇒ 00:28:46.250 Robert Tseng: they want… so they already have Tableau, and they have, Amplitude, but this is a big…
258 00:28:46.780 ⇒ 00:29:06.239 Robert Tseng: big app company, they have, 50 million active users, like, they want to build their own, UI to be able to build out some custom reporting and internal tooling. So, I think that’s kind of the… the thought. So, it’d be, like, inter… internal… internal tooling kind of engineering,
259 00:29:06.480 ⇒ 00:29:12.199 Robert Tseng: Seems like it’s, like, really workflow or kind of UI-driven. I don’t know, is that something that you’d be interested in? Yeah.
260 00:29:12.880 ⇒ 00:29:23.979 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. Yeah, I guess, like, I’m… I think it’d be helpful for me… I know you’ve sent me some stuff about, like, your work before, but just to better know how to pitch… pitch you, or, like, kind of pitch your scope.
261 00:29:24.160 ⇒ 00:29:30.260 Robert Tseng: So, yeah, if you have stuff like that you can send me, like, I think that that would help.
262 00:29:30.450 ⇒ 00:29:31.410 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah.
263 00:29:31.550 ⇒ 00:29:42.940 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Okay, cool, sweet, yeah. I have a bunch of stuff that I’ve done before, so I could, like, get a bunch of that stuff together, and then send it over to you, and then you guys dress it up however you want to dress it up, yeah. Yeah.
264 00:29:42.940 ⇒ 00:29:55.590 Robert Tseng: Yeah, hopefully you know that, like, you know, we… I mean, ironically, both Utam and I are just, like, we’re salespeople now at this point, but we… we know… we know how to sell this stuff, so I think, it should be good.
265 00:29:55.590 ⇒ 00:30:02.679 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Well, that’s the thing, right? Like, I kind of had to do it in my role currently, so it’s like, I’m a technical salesperson, so I can sell.
266 00:30:02.680 ⇒ 00:30:03.330 Robert Tseng: Yeah.
267 00:30:03.330 ⇒ 00:30:18.440 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I didn’t sell really technical tech to even really technical people. I’ve had to learn to kind of dumb it down when I’m not speaking to technical people, but, like, the biggest deal I’ve had signed with me was the principal deal. It’s 30… it’s $3.5 million over 5 years.
268 00:30:18.710 ⇒ 00:30:19.430 Robert Tseng: Nice.
269 00:30:19.430 ⇒ 00:30:24.770 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: And, like, my co-founder got us in the door, but he’s super non-technical. Like…
270 00:30:24.770 ⇒ 00:30:25.320 Robert Tseng: Oh, yeah?
271 00:30:25.320 ⇒ 00:30:38.170 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Like, he’s a wholesaler. So he’s, he’s, I’m a wealth manager, wholesaler. So, like, they flew us out to this Des Moines, and it’s me and 30 people from this, like.
272 00:30:38.900 ⇒ 00:30:49.169 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: 300-year-old company that has, like, 900 employees, and it’s just me going up against all of their top AWS heads, and I’m, like, just kicking ass.
273 00:30:49.590 ⇒ 00:30:51.190 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: So, I’ve done it.
274 00:30:51.190 ⇒ 00:30:52.449 Robert Tseng: Is this the insurance company?
275 00:30:52.660 ⇒ 00:30:53.560 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Huh?
276 00:30:53.970 ⇒ 00:30:54.969 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: This is absolutely…
277 00:30:54.970 ⇒ 00:30:57.540 Robert Tseng: like, Oh, excellent.
278 00:30:57.540 ⇒ 00:31:03.450 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, they needed a technical founder to close that deal. And, yeah, so…
279 00:31:03.700 ⇒ 00:31:14.409 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Did that one, and then I closed another deal for them for half a million dollars a year, building data aggregations for this company called, CraneShares.
280 00:31:15.030 ⇒ 00:31:20.490 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. So, I’m used to a lot bigger deals, but again, like.
281 00:31:20.590 ⇒ 00:31:30.780 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: it’s under someone else’s umbrella, so I’m… again, I want to build something with people I really want to build with people also technical. I think a lot of the things that I’m missing right now is just, like, I’m…
282 00:31:30.860 ⇒ 00:31:47.830 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: the only technical person, and, like, you and Utam have some of those chops, and it’s just like, I want to go to war with, like, people that understand the bills. So they don’t really get the bills, they’re just like, when is it done, when is it done, when is it done, and then they want it to be even cheaper all the time, and it’s just like, that’s not how it works. Yeah. So, cool.
283 00:31:48.290 ⇒ 00:32:03.269 Robert Tseng: Yeah, no, I think, we’re up in that range now, where we’re trying… we’re closing, kind of, in the 500K to million dollar kind of deals at this point, so, maybe not as big as, like, kind of the enterprise ones that you’re working on, but…
284 00:32:03.270 ⇒ 00:32:11.949 Robert Tseng: You know, I think we’ll get there. Or we’re not. Maybe we will just stick with the size. I think that’s something that we need to decide.
285 00:32:12.210 ⇒ 00:32:16.830 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Let’s get it all. Let’s take all the chips off the table.
286 00:32:17.280 ⇒ 00:32:18.020 Robert Tseng: Nice.
287 00:32:18.020 ⇒ 00:32:19.019 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Cool, love it.
288 00:32:19.750 ⇒ 00:32:20.390 Robert Tseng: Okay.
289 00:32:20.570 ⇒ 00:32:20.950 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Possibly.
290 00:32:20.950 ⇒ 00:32:26.549 Robert Tseng: Well, I mean, yeah, I guess he’ll… I guess when he comes back.
291 00:32:26.550 ⇒ 00:32:27.850 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: I got it here.
292 00:32:28.130 ⇒ 00:32:33.610 Robert Tseng: Alright, you’ll be here, or you can jump back on, but I think I’ll probably… I’ll probably hop off for now.
293 00:32:33.730 ⇒ 00:32:34.799 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, cool. Shoot, sweet.
294 00:32:34.800 ⇒ 00:32:36.969 Robert Tseng: Okay, cool. Alright, talk to you later.
295 00:32:36.970 ⇒ 00:32:37.770 Surfield Thomas, Jr.: Alright, peace.
296 00:32:37.900 ⇒ 00:32:38.270 Robert Tseng: Yep.