Meeting Title: Brainforge x Les: Discovery
Date: Dec 11
Meeting participants: Les Stobart, Robert Tseng, Amber Lin
Transcript:
Them: Is on the street already. And now TJ Started a fight with a guy. It’s like, oh, this is perfect. We can get our get back and get paid. Imagine if there wasn’t the incentive of making money, maybe taking it to that. It’s a brutal scene, man. They say it. They shot him, then they just pulled off, watched the amber lamps pull up and it was just like a fucking brutal scene, man. It was brutal. It’s just heartless. And then apparently. They stood there the whole time? Yeah, they just watched it. KVD says. Allegedly, like after the shooting, they was like, yeah, we just stood and watched ambulance take them out. Well, I am a lemons, but yeah. So you think Diddy was involved? Yes. You think he was involved in Biggie’s death, too? His involvement. Death is more so ego. He’s, like, wanting to show that, hey, we’re not scared. So Biggie was supposed to fly out to London to shoot some shit, and he was like, european press. The first time a bad artist is doing the European press, Biggie was hype. Biggie didn’t. Want to be in Cali. But Diddy was so upset by Hit him up. So upset by Shook taking shots at him. He was like, nah, we’re gonna go there. I’m gonna make you do press. And then the day Biggie’s supposed to fly out, Biggie wants the fuck out of Cali. He’s like, this isn’t safe for me. Everybody’s told me I shouldn’t be here. Did he? Hello.
Me: Hello.
Them: That meeting went well.
Me: That was great. Yeah, it’s been sort of slow to get access to everything. And I know you’ve been busy. But there’s just so much. You’re going to be shocked. They’re one of the biggest companies that we work with. And you’re going to see that there’s just so many strategies that they can employ that we can help them with. So I think it’s going to be awesome.
Them: Exciting.
Me: Yeah.
Them: Morning, afternoon, whatever it is.
Me: Afternoon. How’s everything?
Them: Busy, very busy.
Me: Busy. How did the rest of yesterday go?
Them: I don’t know, man. You’d have to query them a little bit. It’s a weird bunch because the different levels of understanding, different hot buttons, different cities, different. It’s like herding cats, man. We do that once a year and it’s like herding cats.
Me: Okay? Well today. I think yesterday was great. I don’t think we’re going to need the full hour and a half today, but one I did.
Them: I have no idea what you’re doing. I have no idea what you’re doing. So the best place to start with me is, hey, here’s who I am. Here’s what I’m doing.
Me: Perfect. Let’s go through that. Give me one second. I just have a good visual for what we’re doing. Also would love to share some how we’ve been working with ABC for almost the past year here. So give me one second. So to give you a sense of. Us.
Them: Don’t know who I said.
Me: Give you one second. Sorry. So. On the call today. You have Amber. And I. My name is utam. I run Brainforge. We’re a data nai consultancy. My background is in data engineering. And business intelligence for a number of companies. I worked in industry as a data engineer and leading data teams. And then. Led product development at a data company. In New York before moving here to Austin. About three years ago. I started brainforges away for us. To scale up a lot of what I was learning and running data teams. And improving reporting capabilities. That company is to clients. And sort of build this. Company, sort of from the ground up over the last three years. The company is primarily data folks, so a mix of data engineers, data modeling people, and data. Analysts. Amber is one of the analysts on our team. But in addition, as I mentioned, Nai company And so the way we actually got introduced to ABAC was. Through a friend of leadership. His name is Scott Harmon. And he was just an advisor of ours. And informed us that ABC was interested in finding a way to help improve their customer service department. Through AI. And so we actually, over the last seven or eight months, helped them develop this product that we call Andy, which you may or may not have heard of, that’s helping the CSRs directly, Google chat, answer questions about policies, procedures, And really helping reduce the stress that they have when they’re on the phone. With clients, helping them keep clients off hold. And also ideally, upsell them on additional services, instead of purely just being a phone call where it’s a bad experience. So we’ve been working with ABC for about six, seven months now. And where we were. Coming up on sort of a renewal of our existing scope with the Andy product. And I mentioned to Matt and Bobby that, hey, we do a lot of data and analytics work. We’d love to hear a little bit about the company and the goals and if there’s any way else that you all could leverage us. And we always like to tell. The folks that we support to throw us into the fire. Meaning tell us where the biggest pain points are in the business. And we use data nai to try to solve those. And so they mention two key pieces of information for us. One is that Pest and home infomercial services are growing industry. But abc is not growing. And so with that sort of no star in mind, It was clear that Matt and Bobby mentioned. That’s where they wanted us to sort of start the conversation. So for us, we spend a little bit of time thinking about the business and really starting from thinking about what is the current state. And so we understood that the relative services, the scale. I live here in Austin, just down the road from the office. And I knew about ABC before, since my first day in town. And so we understood that we just have some simple questions that we go through, which is, how do people know about the company? Where do they come from? How hard is it to buy a service? Is there a leaky bucket problem? Meaning a reacquiring customers, and they’re churning, and so we’re spending money trying to get more. Are people able to answer some of these questions in a timely manner? And then also, of course, their big priority was that you’re leaving. And sort of, what does that what are the implications of that for a business, for the business? And how can a team like us start to bridge the gap between all the things that you do and give them a little bit of a path on what needs to happen here. So I’ll just pause there. That is us. I’m here in austin. Amber is in los angeles. Our company is about 16 people. Yeah, that’s generally where I like to start.
Them: Okay? So ask questions and I’ll give you answers.
Me: I would like to know first. I sent a list of. The things we need access to.
Them: Yeah, I hadn’t seen email in two days. I saw that it was there. I’ll get to it at some point. Some of the stuff I’m sure will be fine. Some of it may not be. But yeah, I saw that I had a couple of three emails from you.
Me: Okay? I guess my first question to you is hearing that. What is your opinion? How does that make you feel? And what is your perspective on the challenges that I mentioned? Do you agree? Do you disagree? Do you feel like there are other things that aren’t encompassed there?
Them: Well, one, one question. And it wasn’t even a lot of questions. It was a lot of kind of statements and suppositions. But if you want to kind of start there.
Me: Y. Es.
Them: ABC is an interesting beast. There is definitely a leaky bucket bucket problem. And it’s probably no one calls it. And it’s interesting that you use the phrase leaky bucket, because that’s what I’ve used for three decades. The company I was at prior to ABC was a similar company called Fox. And it did multiple services, just like ABC did. And it was really a forerunner of ABC before ibc. And that’s where I met Bobby, because that company and ABC and Mr. Appliance and Steam Team did some collaborative things. 20 plus years ago. So my phrase with ABC and with Fox both was always leaky bucket, man. Phones ringing and for I don’t know how much you know about the service business, I’m going to guess not a lot, because most people don’t. But the service business is way different than the typical retail bricks and mortar kind of thing that so many people lean into or have background in. But the service business is so much driven by the fact. That people call because they have a problem. I use the analogy that a service business is like a hospital.
Me: Yeah. You mentioned.
Them: Outside the birth of a child. Outside the birth of a child. There is nothing good about going to a hospital. They meet one thing other than the birth of a child. Where someone is pleased to go to a hospital. Somebody broke an arm. Somebody’s got cancer. Somebody’s got a brain aneurysm. Somebody fell off a building. Somebody got hit by a truck. Somebody broke a toe. There’s nothing good outside the birth of a child about going to a. For that matter, a doctor, probably. I don’t know. I guess maybe you’re getting a boob job or a nose job or whatever you get, and that’s good. But I mean, again, none of that’s good. Well, a service company is the same man. You may say that remodeling a bathroom is kind of fun. Or remodeling a kitchen or painting. Painting a wall a different color. That’s kind of fun. That’s cool. But man. Anything else? My air conditioner is broken. It’s July. It’s 103 outside. My mother’s in law is going to be here for hours. That ain’t good. Air conditioned plumbing, electrical pest control. I got bed bugs. You know, that’s 2, 3, 4,000.Whowantstospendnextweek′svacationmoneytogetitridofabigbedbugproblemrightnow?Soit′soneofthosebusinesses,andthat′salongpreambletosayit′soneofthosebusinessesthatpeopledon′twanttocallandit′snotapleasantpurchaseandit′snotlikearestaurantthatat10:30amIcanshowyouabuyonegetonefree.Chickendinnerandhaveyougo.Shit,man,Iwouldn′tthinkofchicken,butchickensoundsreallygoodrightnow.Me:Yeah.Them:Solet′sgodothat.Samewithshoes,Samewithamovie.Samewithacoffeeshop,Samewithabar,samewithawhatever.Right.Soit′sverymuchdrivenby.I′vegotaproblem.AndtherecognitionofI′vegotaproblem.Andthenitis,hey,whoamIgoingtocall?Sothat′swhereconstantbrandingandconstantpresenceandconstantbrandbuildingandconstantcredibilityofmissionandmessagecomein.ForacompanylikeABCbecauseaIneedtobeinyourdecisionset.Whenyougohomeandyourwifetellsyou,hey,thethermostat′snotworking.Thatairconditionhadn′tcomeonallafternoon.SoIgottobeinyourdecisionset,andthenonceI′minyourdecisionset,I′vegottobe.Youknowwhat?Ithinkthey′reprettygood,orIthinkthey′reaprettygoodcompany.SoI′mgoingtocallthem.Sothat′swhatwedo.Sowe′rearealdifferentanimalthanstimulatingdemand,creatingdemand.AndIdon′talwaysknowthatthat′sreallyfrontandcenterinpeople′smindsinternallyaswellasitis.We′renotagoodcompanyatcomingupwithspecialsorshowinganitemandsaying,getthisitemthere′s.Afewthingslikethatwecandothatwith.Wecansaygetthisitem,andhere′saflatprice.Butsomuchofwhatwehavetodo,wehavetocometoyourhouse,andwehavetomeasureit,andwehavetocountit,andwehavetoestimatehours,andwehavetoestimatematerials,andwehavetoestimatehowlongarewegoingtobethere,wehavetoestimatewarranty.That′swhywecan′tgive,youknow,capitatedpricestooeasily.AllthattosaysomebodycallsinandthelevelofexpertiserequiredforaCSRtoanswerNandeverythingthatLesandUtammayask,man,that′sabigask.Me:Y.Eah.Yeah.Them:Tohavesomebodybethatskilled.Andthemoreyougetintotechnicalthingslikeairconditioningorplumbingorelectricalorappliancerepair,itgetsevenmorecomplicated.Soit′satallorderfortheCSRStodowell.IthinktheothersideofjusttrainingaCSRishiringtherightpersontobeginwith.Dotheyhaveacustomerservicemindset?Dotheyhaveapleasantvoice?Dotheyhavegoodnonverbals?Dotheyhaveagoodvocabulary?DotheylistenwellsothattheyreallyunderstoodwhatthehellUtamisreallykindofsayingorasking?Me:Sure.Them:Andthathasnothingtodowithwhetherornottheyknowtheproducts,man.That′sa.That′sapeoplething.That′sapersonalitything.That′sacustomerservicething.AndIthinkwe′vegotsomeCSRsthatdoareallygoodjob.Ofmakingyoufeellikethey′rehearingyou.Andthey′reempathetic.Notsympathetic,butthey′reempathetictothepainyou′refeeling.ButI′vegotothersthatjustgothrough,man.They′rejustreadingoffthechartandthey′resaying,yeah,Ihearyou.Yougotwateronthefloor,andit′s100degreesinyourhouse,okay?Yeah.Yeah,okay.Holdonaminute.SoIjustcommunicatedtoyouthatIreallydon′tgivea.Okay,sothenonverbalsetforaCSRishuge,andmostpeopleeitherhaveitortheydon′t.Okay.We′re.Imean,essentiallyhiringbecausewedon′thireforit.Well,weknowitwhenweseeit.Ithink,butwedon′t.Wedon′treallyseekitout.We′resodesperate,alotoftimesjusttogetabody.Hey,man,theycanpassthebackgroundcheck.Hey,man,theyseemtobeabletolearnthecomputersystemprettywell.Hey,man,theysaidthattheydidcustomerserviceata.Atabluecollarplacebefore.Sowedon′treallyworryaboutthenonverbalstufftoowell.But,yeah,it′sa.It′satoughjobforcsrs.Ithinkthatinthebuilding,thedifferentdivisionmanagersandsubmanagersunderthedivisionguys.Don′thavealotofempathyfortheroleandthedifficultythataCSRfaces.They.TheytendtowanttothinkthatthelessinformationsometimesthataCSRhas,thebetterbecausetheydon′twanttoseeusorsayinthewrongthing.Theydon′twanttheCSRgoing.Well,gosh,you.Tom,thatdoesn′tsoundlikethat′sgoingtobethatbigaproblem.Ortheydon′twanttosay,hey,youknowwhat?Thatdoesn′tsoundlikethat′sgoingtobeveryexpensive.Theydon′twantanythingtohappenlikethatbecausethey′reafraidit′sthealternative.Andthen,youknow,thecustomerpitchesafiddlealittlebit.SothejobthattheCSRshavetodoistough,man.Butthat′sanycustomerservicejob.That′sanyphonejob.Throwintothefactthatmoreoftenthannot.Iwon′tsaymoreoften.I′llsayalotofthetime.Peopleareunderemotionaldistressifyou′vegotwateronyourfloor.Orcomingthroughyourattic,oryoujustsawaratinyourbaby′sroom,ortheACisn′tworking,ortheheaterisn′tworking,orallofthosethingsthatarekindofourmerchantkindofservices.Then,yeah,you′realreadyelevated,man.Yourbloodpressureisalreadyup.Andifwedon′t,iftheCSRsaren′tprettygoodatreadingthatandunderstandingthosenonverbalsandthenhaven′tbeentaughtsomeskills.Todeescalate.Then,yeah,itcangofrombadtoworse.Butit′satoughgig.Me:Doyoufeellikeinthatsamerainbowthatthefactthatyou′veinvestedsomuchintocustomerservice.Thatiswhateverybodymentionsasasuperpoweraswell.Them:Idon′tknowwhatthatmeans.Whatareyouasking?Me:Thatisoneofthestrengthsofabcis.Thecustomerservicedepartment.Them:It′sokay.Yeah,it′sokay.Youcalleditasuperpower.Isurewouldn′tsaythat,man.See,I′m.I′manoutlieralotoftime,dude,andI′mgonnapissalotofpeopleoff.Me:Yeah.Them:Because,youknow,I′mgonna.I′mgonna.I′mgonnagiveyoustraightupanswers.Andtherearepeopleinthatbuildingthatdon′tnecessarilywanttoconsiderthattheywanttogo.No,no,no,no,no,no.Everything′sfine.That′snotwhatIwanttofocuson.Me:Doyoufeellikeinawaythatyoumentiontheleakybucketproblem?Doyoufeellike.Thecompanyoverallfocusesmuchmoreonacquisition.Thanretention.Than.Tryingtowinback.Acanceledoranunhappycustomer.Doyouthinkthat′s,like,afair?Thingto.Say.Them:That′sacompoundquestion,brother.Breakitdownintosimpler.Imean,dowefocusonAcquisition?Yes.DowehavesomeCSRsthatsoundreallygoodwhenyoucallanddependingonthemoodofthepersonanddependingonwhatthe17itemsarecallinginfor.Alotofthetime.Here′swhereI′mgoingtogeneralize.AndI′ll.I′llpointitouttoyouifyoudidn′tcatchit.Ithinkalotofthetime,Idon′tknowifit′sthemajority.Idon′tknowifit′stheminority.Idon′tknowifI′dputitinthe90Me:Ilistenedtoprobably20or30calls.Iknow,Amber.Them:Oh,dude,youhadn′tevenscratchedthetipofthetipofthetip.Listentoashittonofphonecalls,listentomornings,listentoevenings,listentoeverycue.Makesurethatyoulistentopastairconditioning,plumbing,whenthecleaning,trashbin,appliancerepair,waterquality,treetrimming,landscaping,Lawnmowingfertilization.Listentoeveryoneofthem.Me:Doyoufeellike?Them:They′veallgottheirownuniquerhythms.They′veonlygottheirownuniquepricingstructures.Inthelawndepartmentalone.Let′sdothis.Inthemechanicaldepartmentalone.Wegivefreeestimatesforsomethingsandwechargeyoutogiveyouanestimateforotherthings.I′mnotsayingthat′sunreasonable.Me:Yeah.Them:I′msayingthattoalargedegree,that′sintheDNAofanindustry,ofdependingonwhichverticalinahomeserviceindustryyou′rein.Butlookatitholistically.Ifyou′reanABCclientcustomer,andyouhavebeenforafewyears,you′vegottenafreeestimateforlawnmowing,afreeestimateforpestcontrol,orfreeestimate.Forwhatelse,man?Picksomethingsbutpainting.Andthenallofasudden,I′mgoingtochargeyoutogiveyouanestimateforrepairingyourdryerorforrepairingyourairconditioner.Oh,andkeepinmind,sometimesIgiveyoufreeairconditioningestimates.Also,ifit′sforareplacementsystemasopposedtoarepair.It′stoughtobeanABCcustomersometimesbecauseeveryverticalhasitsownsetofrulesandmoreA′s.Me:Iguess,giventhose.GiventherealityoftheCSRdepartment.Yes.Youkindofhavetomaybegetawarmbodyandsometimes.Yes,it′sareallytoughjob.SoTuringisveryhigh.Whatdoyouthinkispossible?Imean,you′vebeenwiththecompanyforalongtime.Iknowthecompanyhas.Grownnotonlyintheservices,inthedivisions.Theinternalculture.Whatdoyouthink?Thebusinesscontinuestojust.Betheleadingplayerinthemarket.Whatdoyou.Think?Yeah,Iguess.Maybe.What?Wecouldstartthere.Them:Oh,yeah,That′sasimplequestion.It′sabunchofdifferentthings,dude.Areyouconfiningittothecustomerserviceenvironment?Me:No.Them:Oh,hiring.Me:Okay?Them:SoaverageageofaplumberintheUnitedStatesiswhat.Me:Goodquestion.Idon′tknow,say35?Them:Oh,no,no,no,no,no.It′ssomewhereinthemid−50s.Averageageofaplumber,y55.Me:Young.Them:Whyisthat?Well,kidsdon′twanttobeplumbers,man.Theywanttobedronepilots,electronictechnicians.Videogamebuilders,electronicspecialists.AIandenthusiasts.Imean,gettingsomebody.AndI′msureit′ssimilarforautomechanicsandwoodworking.Andstufflikethat.Butrecruitingandhiringisgoingtocontinuetobeproblematicforanybodyintheservicespace.GoandtalktoTomandgotooneofhisplumbingmeetings.Andjustlookaroundtheroomandkindofgetafeelforwhattheaverageageisoftheplumber′sinthere.Doyouhavesomeyoungerguys?Yeah.Theymightbeapprenticesandnotactuallylicensedjourneymanormasterplumbers,butthere′ssomeinthestream,inotherwords.Butyou′vegot.Sohiringisalwaysgoingtobeproblematic.Andit′sextremelyexpensivebecauselikeanycommoditythatthere′sfewerofthanit′sproblematicandwedoadecentjobofit,butwestrugglewithit.Westrugglewithit.Me:Doyouthinkthatthereisaservice?That′snew.Doyouthinkthere′saregionthatABCsenteredininthelastfiveyears?Thathasalotofpotential.Them:Ithinkallofthemhavealotofpotential.Andagain.Idon′tknowhowlongyoustayedintheroomyesterday,butIcangetprettygranular.SoIthinkallofthemhavesomepotential.Somethingsareseasonal.Soyouhavetomakesurethatdependingontheproductyou′retalkingabout,You′retryingtogrowit,ifthat′swhatyou′reaskingaboutorcuriousabout.Then,youknow,it′skindofanobrainertogo.Okay.Weneedtomakesurewe′regrowingitintherightseason.DoIthinkthatalloftheserviceshave.Theequalpotential.Probablynot.Ithinkyou′dhaveto.Imean,here′ssomestats.ThatIthinkareprettyaccurateorprettytrue.IknowI′vepickedthemupfromindustrypeopleovertheyears,butatanygiventime,there′s3Me:Now.ThatIamorderingABCservicesthisweekactuallytowalkthrough.Them:Okay,well,yoursacredsitewithme.You′re.You′resacredsafewithme.I′mnotgoingtotellMattandBobby.Me:Iwouldliketo.Them:Butmy.Mypoint.Me:Butnow,yeah,ItalkedtoJulieyesterdayandIwaslike,yeah,I′mgoingtobeorderinglawn.She′slike,actually,alsoorder,too,sowecanseethe.BecauseIwaslike,IwanttohearthebundlingandIwanttokindofseewhatthecustomerjourney.Is.Them:Y.Eah.So,and,anddoitasanormal,fullfledgedcustomer.Callinanddothemtwoseparatetimes,maybe,andthenseewhatthe.Seewhatyouthinktheexperienceis.Me:Yeah.Them:I′m.I′msorry.Ikindoflostmytrainofthought.Oh,pestcontrol.Soclearlyverydrivenbyseasonality.Usuallyinsectsarekindofmoreofaspringandsummerthing,andanimals,asopposedtoinsectsthatwearfur,aretypicallymorecolderweatherkindofthings.Mice,rats,raccoons,possums,etc.Theyareverydrivenbytheenvironment.Isitahotsummer?Isitacoldsummer?Isitawetsummer?Wasitawetspring?Sosomeofthatstuff.Isn′tcontrolled,right?Imean,areyou.Areyouatthemercyof.SoIdon′tthinkanybody,unlessyou′resuperrightwingleaning,wouldthinkthatthere′snosuchthingasclimatechangeorenvironmentalchangeorenvironmentalimpact.ButIdothink.Youknowthat′scoming,that′sgoingtoimpactthepestcontrolindustry.Butkindofthingiscoming.Youngerpeoplehavedifferentviewsofpestcontrolthanolderpeopledo.Soyougetintothat,youknow,thosekindofvariables.That′swhytargetinggetstobesoimportantinmessaging.Withthetargeting.Getstobesoimportant.ButIguessallofyourserviceshavecertainlyalotofpotential.AndIthinkthemainoverlayI′dlookatwouldbe,youknow,asapercentageofthepopulation,howmany.Howmuchofthepopulationtypicallyishavingthatservice.Andtheonesthathavethe.Thetradesthathavethehighestpenetrationintermsofpopulationdensity,ofhavingthatservice.Whateverthedeltaisbetweenwhatwehaveandwhat′souttherewouldbeagoodweightoradecentwaytomeasureceiling.Me:Yeah.Them:But,youknow,that′sapossibility.Me:Canyoutalktomeabout,like,whatthe,youknow,stepchangeswereinthebusinessasitrelatestothemarketingside.Like,youknow,I.Iknow.I′msurethatwhenyoustarted,therewasastate,youknow,marketingwent,like,wherethereany,like,inflectionpoints,whetheritwasbudgetornewchannel.Orsomethinginthemarketlikethatyouremember,like,really,youknow,movethecompanyinanewdirection.Like,arethereanythatstandout?Them:Newdirection.That′saninterestingphrase.Don′tknowthatIwouldusethosewords,butIthink.Ithinkinflection.Inflectionpointisadecentword.We′veaddedcitiesinthe17years,almost18yearsI′vebeenthere.WhenIwentthere,therewasonlycollegestationandonlyaustinandsanantonio.Andso,anythingelsesincethen?Isliterallyanewoffice.Sothere′s.There′ssomeinflectionpoints.Anytimewe′veaddedaservice.Inanymarket,andtheneverytimeyouadditagaintoanothermarket.Thenthoseareinflectionpoints.Ithinkthere′sbeentwo,maybe.Economicinflectionpoints.Therewaskindofaperiodinabout,Iguess,theearly2000s,maybe.I′dhavetotrytogoback.AndtheonlytimeI′vethatBobby′severcometomeandsaid,hey,man,Ineedyoutocutbudgetandcut.We′resofarbehindthatweneedtocutbudget.Thatwassometime.2000,2001,2002.Idon′trememberexactly.Butthatwas.Thatwasanexternaleconomicthinggoingon.Theotherone′srightnow.Ithinkanybodythatthinkstheeconomyrightnowisgood.Isnuts.Igetshopperdata?IlookatWalmarttarget.Lastthreeyears.ThenumberofitemsinabuggyatTarget.Hasgonedowneveryquarter,everyyear,practically.Walmartonthegroceryside,numberofitemshavegonedown.Aswellaswhomever′sdoingtheshoppingisbuyingmoregenericbrands.Morestorebrandsandlessnamebrands.Highestcreditcard.Hey,yougotadog?Backtherebehindyou.Yeah,mine′swanderingaround.Creditcards.WearerightbackwherewewerepreCovid.IfyoulookatwhatyearsABCwassupersuccessful,Supergoodyears,buddy,duringCovid.Okay?Someofthatwascreditcardsomeofthatwasnotcreditcarddebt.Butnowwe′rebackagaininhighestcreditcarddebtwehavehadsincepriortotheCovidpandemic.SoIthinkthat′saplacewhere.ABChasnotownedupnearlyasmuchastheyoughttospendtimeon.What′sgoingoneconomicallyinthemarket,andeveryonelikestothink.ThatAustinisinabubbleorsomewhatinsulated,anditprobablyis.Austin′sstillreallyafluentcommunity.Butcarpaccid.Idon′tknowthatWacois.Don′tknowthatMarbleFallsis.Don′tknowthat.Idon′tknow.Bastard.Mightbejustbecauseofitsgrowthrate.Me:Yeah.Them:ButIthinktheeconomythatwe′reinrightnow,untilthere′ssomelightattheendofthetunnel,Ithinkthisisthe.ThatitisthesecondeconomicinflectionpointthatIthinkhasexistedpriortoabc.AndIdon′tevenknowwhereyouwereorwhatkindofdiaperyouwerewearing,butitwas,man,1999.When.The.combubbleburst.So,man,thatwasmonstrous.InAustin,Texas.Sothatwouldhavebeenthree.Butifyou′rejusttalkingaboutabc.AndIthinkImighthavesaid2001,2002earlier.Itwasreallyprobablymorelike2010.I′msorry.Itwasmorelike2010.Me:Y.Es.Them:Andthennow.Now.Me:AndthenanotherquestionIhaveis.Howyouthinkabout.Yourbudget.How.Howisthe.Howdoesitlike,howdiditevolve?Andareyoudoingitasafunctionofthis,youknow,budget?Yeah,Iguess.Like,howdoyou.Howdoyouthinkaboutbudgetingformarketing?Iguessfromyesterdayitwasreallyclearhowyouarethinkingchannelbychannel,brandversusservice.I.Ithinkthat′s,youknow,thatmakesalotofsense.ButhowdoyouthinkabouttheoverallbudgetingprocessfromaperspectiveofBobby?FromtheperspectiveofNat.MaybeIcouldjustgetsomeinsightintothat.Them:It′sinteresting.Me:Doyouthink?Like.Hasthatgrownovertime?Isitalwaysbeenafixedpercentageofrevenue?Doyoufeellikeyouhavetheflexibility?Totakebets.Likehowdoyou.Yeah.Them:That′sabetterquestion.Yes,it′sgrownovertime.It′sbeen.Youknow,Bobbyis.Trulyisinaway.Amarketingperson.Inthathedeeplybelievesinmarketing.Andhe.Hewould.Hewould.Hewouldverymuchprobablysmileandhugyouifyoucalledhimasalesman.Okay.Hereallylooksfavorably.Andstillprobablyathisheartofhearts.Knowsandbelieveshe′sagoodsalesman.Buthe′salsoverymarketingaware.Meaningheknowshowimportantmarketingis.There′stonsofanecdotals,stuff,storiesyouhear,storiesyouread.Where,youknow,aneconomyturnsdownorabusinessslows.AndthefirstthingtheCEOdoesiscutadvertising.Oh,myGod.Wegotta.Wegottasavemoney.Wegottacutmarketing.Gottacutadvertising.That′snotbothering.Bobbyknowsbetter.Sohe′sverymuchwiredthatway.Mattisn′tMatt.IloveMatttodeath.Matt′soneofmygoodfriendsinthebuilding.ButMattisverymuchaCFObeancounter.Lookatthemargins,lookattheprofit,lookattheoverhead,lookatthat.He′sverymuchheaddowninthespreadsheet.Andthatinfluencehisinfluences,histhinking.Andinagoodway.Inagoodway.Theysparalittlebitortheyuseoneanotherasasoundingboard.Bobbyuseshimasasoundingboard.Matttriestopullhimin,anditmakesBobbythinkalittlemoreaboutLetmerefinethatthoughtprocess.BecauseIamtryingtospendmoremoney.Let′sletmerefinethat.SoBobbywouldspendmore,Mattwouldspendless.It′salwaysbeenafixedamount.There′sargument,andIdon′tknowifyouweresittinginthereyesterday,buttherewasdisagreementamongthem,goodnatureddisagreementamongthemabout,well,isit4Me:Okay?Iwouldlovetoaskforhowpartnershipshasimpactedthebusiness.Inparticular,IlearnedalotabouttheCostcopartnership.Howhaspartnershipchangedovertime?Aretherepartnersthataremorevaluable?Them:Yeah.I′mnotagoodonetoaskaboutthat.I′venotbeenparticularlyinvolvedonthepartnershipside.Me:Thanothers.Them:I′vegotimpressionsandnotparticularlywellinformedthoughts,butI′mnotagoodpersontoaskaboutthat.Me:Okay?And.Iguessgoingbacktothebudget,giventhatABChasbeengrowingandyourbudget.Youknow,givenevenasafixedpercentofalargerpieisgrowing,howdoyoufeelaboutyour,like,operationalcapacityto.Them:I′mmax.Edout.Me:Max,okay?Howhasthatbeenthecase?Like,consistentlyoverthelast,like,five,tenyears.Okay?Doyoufeelthat?Them:Getyouatimeline.Putatimelinetogetherandlookathowcitieshavebeenadded.Me:Yeah.Them:Lookathowserviceshavebeenadded.Andthenexaminemaybejusttheadditional.Dollarsthathavetobekindofshepherded.Andthenlookathowdigitalmarketinghasgrown.Thedifferentchannelsthatareemployableinthedigitalmarketingworld.Andjustknowthatthatjobhasgottenmorecomplicated.AndI′mreallygoodwithabudget.I′magoodsteward.OftheabcbudgetthatI′mgiven.Idon′t.Idon′tcoloroutsidethelinesverymuch.Idomybesttostayinsidethelines.I′marulefollower.AndIliken.HeandIcommunicatereallywelltogether.Butit′stoughbecauseinthedigitalspacealone,AndIdon′tknowhowmuchyouknowthatyouthrowoutafewthingsthatyou′vedone,Idon′tknow.But,youknow,adigital20yearsagois.I′vegotawebsite.Andpeopledidn′treallyknowwhattodowiththatwebsite.Itwasessentiallyabrochureontheweb.Right.Insteadofahandinyouabrochure.I′dgo,hey,gotothewebsite,Nam.Buttherewasn′tany.Therewasn′tanywaytoreallydomuchcommerceormuchbusiness.Andtherewascertainly,like,notanyappointmentschedulingoranythinglikethatgoing.Butthatwasit.Thatwasdigital.Andthensomebodyelsehadawebsite,andtheywerelike,hey,youwanttobuyanadonmywebsite?Andbackinthosedays,Icalledthemtielabs.Whenyoutalkedaboutessentiallyadisplayad,itwasatileadbackthen.Andthatwas,thatwasmaybeoneofthefirstproductsthatwasavailableinthedigitalworldforsomebodytobuy.Andthenallofasudden,PPCads,andbackthentheyweresocalledGoogleAdWords.Hey,IwanttobuysomeGoogleAdWordads.Sothatpoppedup,andthen,youknow,maybesomewhereinthere,allofasudden,Facebookpoppedup,andthere′sanewcategorycalledsocialmedia.Andthensomewhereinthere,youknow,what,nextdoorpoppedup.OrYelp,Iguess.Yelp.YelpcameoutofSanFranciscoandtherestaurantspace.Andtheywereessentiallyreputationmanagementforrestaurantbusinessinthatpartoftheworld.Andthensomebodylikeyougoes,hey,man,youknowwhat?Wecandothisforalotmorebusinessesallacrossthecountry.AndthentherecomesYelp.Sothatwasjustapartofthereputationmanagementstuff.AndthenGbpsandthenLSAsandthenvideoprerollsandthentactics.Right.Retargetingisatactic.Me:Y.Eah.Them:Conquestisatactic.Acquisitionisatactic.Sointermsofallofthemediums,thenyouhadallthesedifferenttacticsbeginningtopopup.Sothedigitalworldthatwasoncethis.Seriously,ifyou′rethinkingwebsiteandbuyingtileads,Nowit.′sthis?Me:Y.Eah.Them:So,yeah,absolutely,man.Thingshavegottenbusier.Me:Howhasyouadopted?Like,howistheteamadapted?Howis.Them:I′mreallygood.Ilikethedigitalworld.There′scertainpiecesofitIlikealot.I′mcuriousbynature.Sointhe25yearsI′vedoneairconditioning,25yearsI′vedoneplumbingallthosethings.Ihaveanaturalcuriosity,soI′llaskalotofquestions.Peoplewillgo,whatareyouaskingthatfor?Andit′susuallyatechnicianoramanager,buttheonesthatknowme,Andwe′vesettledintoareally,reallygoodrelationship.Butithelpsmeunderstandnuance.Ithelpsmemessageright.Iusetherightnomenclature.Iusetherightfamiliarterms.Iknowwiththehotbuttonsareandhowtouselanguagearoundthosehotbuttons.There′sbeensomeindependentstufftolookathowconsumersmakedecisions.IdidsomeresearchworkwhenIwasattheothercompany,honestly,thatIstillusetothisdayabouthowUttammakesdecisionsaboutcallingahomeservicecompany.SoIjustadaptallthatstuffin,andthenIlookatthetacticsthatrolloutfromdifferentprovidersofdigitalservice.Orradioortelevisionoroutdoororwhateveritmaybe.AndpickandchoosethethingsthatmakethemostsenseforthemessagingIneedtodoortheaudiencethatIneedtoattack.OrthegoalthatIneedtotrytoachieve.SoI′lljustdoit.Me:Thereonthecompetitivesidearetheircompetitors.That.You.Takeanyinspirationfrom.Orwatchtheirtacticsortakealookat.Them:Notalot.Imean,I′llbehonestwithyou.Me:Itcouldbeoutsideofahomeservicesaswell.Them:Well,Idon′tknowwhatyoumeanbyagain.DoIlookatcompetitiveadvertising?Yeah.Imean,allIgottodoisturnonthenews,openupawebsite.Gotoasocialmediaplatform,turnontheradiostation.Listentoastreamingchannel.Openup.Spotify?Yeah.Imean,Ilikeeveryone.Likeeveryone.Likeeveryone.IconsumemediaandIamjustlikeeverybodythatconsumesmedia.ThinkI′manexpert.Everybodythatsatinthatroomyesterdaybelievesthemselvestobeamediaexpert.Becausetheyconsumesomuchofit.Now.That′sproblematicsometimes.Becausetheydon′tbegintoknowthingsatadepththatmaybetheyreallyoughtto,tounderstandthewaycertainthingswork.Televisionbuying,radiobuying,outdoorbuying.Retargetingvideoproduction,audioproduction.Butallthosethingsthatcomeintoplay.Butpeopleintheirverynature.I′mnotsayingit′suniquetoABCbyanystretch,butpeoplebytheirverynaturebecausetheyconsumesomuchadvertisingandmarketingcontent.Theybegintothink,hey,youknowwhat,man?Youknowwhatwouldmakethatadbetter?Youknow,whatifyouhadsaidthis,youknow,whatifthiswasblue?Youknow,whatifyou′dhaveputapictureofapuppyinthere?Everybodyiskindofanexpertonmarketingandadvertising.Becausetheyconsumesomuchofit.There′snotawholelotofotherroles.Thathavethatissue.Me:AndthenanotherquestionIhadisonthecommercialsideofthebusiness,Youknow,wedidn′tspendmuchtime,atleastduringmyportion,speakingabout,youknow,market.Them:Idon′tdoanythingonthecommercialside.Tospeakofeverydown,man,somebody′sasstakingyoutoabrochure.Hey,canyouputthisadinthebusinessjournal?ButBtoBstuffisreallynotreallythewaywhatmypositionisfor,otherthantheoddjobhereandthere,like,hey,canyouhelpmewiththis?No,that′smoreorlesshandled,andIdon′tevenhaveawholelotofvisibilityintoit,butit′shandledby,youknow,kindofanoutsidesalesforce.Me:Doyouthinkthat′samissedopportunity?Them:Askmeabetterquestion.Idon′tknowwhatyou′re.Idon′tknow.WhatdoIthinkImean?Me:Then.That′sforyoutonotownorforyoutonot,youknow,alsobundleBtoBmarketingwithasimilartacticsthatyou′reusing.Ontheresidentialsidetohave.Tonothavepurviewoverthat.Them:Well.Idon′tknow.Imean,Idon′tclaimtobeaBtoBexpert.I′lltellyou,I′maBtoCexpert.ButI′mnotgoingtotrytowearthemantleofbeingnearlyasmuchofaBtoBpersonasIamaBtoCperson.Me:Okay?Them:Youknow,Icoulddosomerealbaselevelstuffagain.Generalcommunications,generalsalesetiquetteandsales.Youknow,type,schedulingandperformance.IcoulddosomerealbasicthingsontheB2Bside,but,Imean,itissodifferent.Atleastinourorganizationandinalotofserviceorganizations.WhenyoutalkaboutB2BorB2C.Andthere′ssomethingstherethatcomeintoplay,likeairconditioningisahugeone.Arewe,areweinthe,dowedocommercialairconditioning?Goandgetanansweronthatquestion.Becausehere′stheanswer.Ifyouhadanofficeanditwaslikeusedtobeahouse.Butnowyourunyouraccountingofficeoutofthathouse.Butit′sstillsetuplikeahouse.Ithasa.Ahouseholdsinkandahouseholdtoiletandahouseholdairconditioner.Then.Yeah,man,we′llcomeoutandworkonthat.Butifyouhaveanykindofcommercialpropertywherethere′spackageunitsandroofunitsandchillersandstufflikethat,wedon′twanttobeanywherenearthat.Andthatcanbeconfusing.Foralloftheexistenceofabc.Totrytoanswerthatquestionsometimes.Me:Okay?Anotherquestionis.You.Mentionedlisteningtothephonecalls.Youmentioned,youknow,sittinginthemeetings,liketheplumbingmeeting.Arethereanyother,youknow,reallyhighifwewereto,youknow,takethetimetodowherethedensityofthingswewouldlearnwouldbeveryhigh.Anyothermeetingsoractivitiesyouthinkthatthatwouldbethatyou′drecommend.Them:Yes.Me:Yeah,wouldlovetohearacoupleofthose.Them:GetoutofMattandBobby′soffice.GetoutofBo′soffice.Andsitwiththemanagers.Andunderstandeverydivisionandevery.Firstofall,understandthestructureofibc,andyoumayalready.Again,Ihavenoideawhatyou′vebeendoing.Butmechanical.Forexample.Doyouknowthedepartmentsandthemechanicaldivision?Me:Idon′thaveitinfrontofme,but,yes,wedohavethe.Thesortoforgstructuremappedout,but.Them:That′sfine.Notatrickquestion,man.Ijustamlookingforkindofwhatleveltospeakto.Me:Yes.Them:Right.Me:Familiarwiththeservices.Wearefamiliarwithsortoftheregional,youknow,branchmanagers.Andthenwedocloselyworkand.Orinparticularworkscloselywithmechanical.Andpassedthemononthecsrside.Them:SomechanicalisprobablythemechanicallaworprobablygoodBestexamples.ProbablyPestistheworstexample.Butinmechanicalappliancewaterquality.Plumbing,electrical,ac.IfIalreadysaidappliance,thenIdon′tneedasixfinger.Soeachoneofthosehasamanagerunderit,andeachoneofthosehastechniciansunderit.Soyou′vegotmultiplelevelsfromTomdowntothefieldstaff,butsomeotherareasanddepartmentsdon′thave.Inotherwords,you′vegotmoreroomfordisconnectormiscommunication.Insomedepartmentsthanothers,sobereal.Sohere′stheadvice,Iguess.Makesureyoukindofunderstandhowthedepartmentsaresetup,because.Anddon′tmakethemistakeofassumingthatbecausePestdoesitthisway,theneverybodyelsemustdoitthatway.Becausetheydon′t.So,yeah,dothat.Andtalktosomeofthosepeople.AndIdon′tknowandIdidn′task,andIdon′tcare.Butmakesureyou′recomfortable,eithertellingthemupfrontortellthematsomepoint,hey,thisisn′tleavingthisroom.OrI′mgoingtobetalkingtoMattandBobbyaboutwhatyousaidfiveminutesfromnow.Andthen,youknow,getthat.Thenchatwiththem.Andyou′llhear.Ifyouwanttohearchallenges,you′llhearchallenges.Ifyouwanttohearwhatworkswell,you′llhearwhatworkswell.Sojust,youknow,dosomeofthat.Butthevolumeofphonecallsalone.AndyoumayknowbetterthanIdo,soI′maskingyou.Doyouknowhowmanyphonecallswegetaweek?Me:Yeah,Amberwas.Wesawitwas80,000amonth.Them:Yeah,That′salotofphonecalls.So.Inthat80,000.You′vegotsalespeopleprospectinglike,hey,Isellcopiers.Doyouguysneedcopiers?Yougetthat?Yougetsomebodythat′sanewcustomer.Toavc.Well,let′sdefinethisaminute.Thisistheoneofthebiggerthingsthatweasacompanydon′tcometotermswithnearlyaswellaswesomepeoplewouldliketothinkwecometotermswith.ButI′llask.Youdefineanewcustomeratabc.Youdefineit.Youtellmewhatanewcustomeris.Me:Mydefinitionwouldbeafter.Apayment.Comesinfortheservicesrendered.Them:Okay,fairenough.Me:Iagreethat,youknow,evenhearingyousayyes,somepeoplewillsaythatmomentgetsinvolved.Themomenttheygetatsomeoneoutthere.Whatiftheyreally.Them:I′mgoingtogoslightlydifferent.I′mgoingtogo,honestly,slightlydifferent.Me:Place.Them:Andthisiswhere,ifyoudon′tknowtheserviceindustrywell,andthat′snotashot,that′snotmebeingimpliedorrude,butreally,lookatallthedifferentrhythmsthatexistacrossallthose17verticals,becausehereitis.Me:Idon′tknow.Them:Ifyou′realawnmowingcustomer.WeseeyouthereisanABCpersoninyouryardroughlyeverytwoweeks.Ifyou′realawncareperson.Andcaremeansfertilization.That′sallitmeansinourworld.Thisandweconfusepeoplewithnomenclature.Weusealotofindustryspeak,whichIhate.I′malwaysaproponentforhowpeoplerefertoitnomenclaturewiseinthepublic,butcarejustmeansfertilization.Soifyou′reafertilizationclient,youseeusabouteverytwoorthreemonths.Idon′tremembernow.Whichoneofthoseitis.Ifyou′reanairconditioningcustomer,youmaygoyears,man.Youmaygoyears.Ifyou′reaplumbingcustomer,youmaygoyears.Ifyou′reinaplantrepaircustomer,youmaygoyears.There′sthishugeseparation,Ithink,betweenwhat?Acustomer,a.Howwedefineit,Itypicallywillsayacustomerisanyonethathasdonebusinesswithusinanyverticalinthelast12months.WhenIaskedthatquestion15yearsago.Godknowswhattheanswerwas.IthinkBobbywouldsayNowIthinkhe′skindofevolvedintosaying18monthsorsomethinglikethat.Me:AsforJulie,mentionedtousaswell.Them:Yeah.Sothat′sarelativelynewishkindofevolution.Butnotinabadway.Again,doesn′tmeananything.I′mjustsaying.There′sthat.Butthat′sfineifit′sanongoingorwillingkindofservice.But,man,youcouldbeanairconditioningcustomerandgoyearsandnotcallusagain.Butthatdoesn′tmeanthatyou′rereallyagood,viablecustomer.Forsomething.IthinktherealtestisifIranintoyouatheb.Andweshotthebreezeforasecond,andthenIsaid,hey,man.IsaidandIaskedyou.Hey,areyou.Acustomer.Doyouhaveanairconditioningcompanythatyoubelongtothatyou′reacustomerof?Idon′tknowwhatyou′regoingtosay.IfIwasatyourhouselastweek,IfABCwasatyourhouselastweek,you′dprobablygo,youknowwhat?Me:Yeah.Them:ABCwasatmyhouselastweek.Butifit′sbeenthreeyears,you′llprobablygo.Nah.Me:Yeah.Them:Sothere′sahugevarianceinkindofwhatisacustomer.AndIthinkifthatcanreallybewelldefinedandwellroundedandreallykindofbeatintoshape,thenIthinkalotofthingscouldhappenfromthat.Me:Y.Eah.Them:Weknowwhatacustomeris?Becauserightnow,ifyouask10peoplewhatacustomeris,Yeah,man.Thereprobablywouldgiveyouananswerthatreflectstheirdepartmentortheirdivisionhonestly.Me:Y.Eah.Them:AndBobbycomesfrompestcontrol.SoeverythingforBobbyisrootedinpestcontrol.Me:Another,Iguess,questionwherewe′rekindofcomingup,youknow,ontimeiswhatdoyou.Like.Howdoyou.Whatdoyou.Whatwouldmakeyouconfidentthatyouknowtheteamafteryou′regone?Can,youknow,continueto.Tohandlethis.Like,whatwould.You?Yeah.Whatwouldlikehandlethescopeofactivitiesandoperations?Them:Handlework.Handleword.Me:Andsortofleadershipthatyou′re.Thatyouowntoday.Them:Imean.It′snotimportantformeto.That.Me:Todothat.ButIguessifIweretosay,well,wouldgiveyoutheconfidence.It′snotlikeyouhavetohaveconfidence.Them:Right.Andyeah.Okay,let′stalkthroughthataminute.SoIdon′tknowifyouconsideryourselflike.Amarketingadvertisingpersonornot,Ican′treallytellwhatyouthinkyouare.Me:Weworkwithalotofcompaniesontonsofmarketing,omnichannelanalytics.Onthemarketingside,so.Andfamiliar.Workedinmarketingtheday.Iamnotacreative.I′mnot.Donot.Doyouknowadcreationdonotrunmarketingcampaign.Butweareontheconsumptionofthedatafromalotofthat.Them:Goodenough.Sothere′sanoldjoke,kindof.Oranoldtruism,ifyouwill.Thatifyouget1,000,pickanumber.Mediabuyersintoaroomorcampaigndevelopersinaroom,andyougivethemtheexactsameassignmentonawrittenpieceofpaper.Here′sthegoal,here′stheobjective,here′sthebudget.Here′sthemessage.Gocreate.CampaignorwithanScampaigns,gocreate.Ifthere′sahundredintheroom,guesshowmanyyougetback.Ahundreddifferentones.Me:Yeah.Them:Okay?So.I′mabigbelieverinthewayI′vedonethings.Iverymuchbelievethatit′sworked.ABChasgrownmassively.Someofthatgrowthhasbeenbecausehasbeenthroughacquisition.We′veaddedacity,we′veaddedaservicethatwasn′tthereayearago.Butotherwiseit′sgrown.Bobby,Ithink,willtellyouthemainthing.ThatIwasthereasonIwasattractivetohim18yearsago.17andahalfyearsago.WasbecauseIknewairconditioning,plumbing,electrical,thatspace.Comingfromfarms.ButIdoexpectso.SoIdothingsthatIbelievein.I′macreativebybackground.Andthenthethirdkindoflegofthatisithastobemanageable.Ifyou,youknow,ifyougoandcreateatonofcampaigns.Atonofdigitalstuff,atonofTVstuff,atonofbillboards.Whateveryouwanttodo,butyoucan′tmanageit.Inmedia,that′scalledtraffic.Ineedtochangeoutcommercials.Ineedtochangeoutcreative.Ineedtochangeoutvideos.Ineedtochangeoutspots.Ineedtochangeoutdoorhangers,whateveritis.IfIcan′tgetthatdone,ifthefieldisalwayswaiting,like,whenisthatgoingtochangeout?Orshit,it′sDecember.WhyamIsayingasummercommercialrunning?OrifIcan′tmanageit,thenIshouldn′tdoit?ButbecauseI′vebuiltsomanythingsforsolongandI′vegotsuchdeepresources.Initinjustaboutanything.ThenI′vegotawholeteam.That′snotanemployeeofabc.Okay?Igottwoemployeesatabc.Really?Onein.Oneandathird.Oneandahalf.Oneandaquarter.BecausethatquarterisBobby′sdaughter,Chelsea.Thatispaidtobeafulltimeemployeeforme,but.There′snotalot.Shedidn′tcometotheoffice.AndthenIan,thesocialmediapersonthat′sreallynowjustkindofmoreofavideocontentperson.ButI′vegotanother25peoplethataremyfreelancers.Agencies.Compadres.That.Whatever.That′swhereIwasthismorning.IwaswithoneofmydigitalpeopleataWeWorkspaceupinthedomainplanning.Me:Great.Yeah,fulltime.Them:Yeah.SoIwastherefrom9to2today,justaboutor1:45.Ithoughtourmeetingwas.Me:So.ThatwasthefirstcompanyIworkedfor,actually.WeWork.Iwasontheirdatateamthere.Backin2018.Them:Imet.Imetsomebodyovertheretoday.AndhissegmentisreallyCTVOTTdisplay.Andwewereworkingthroughnextyearandbrainstormingandthinkingtacticsandstrategies.SoI′vegotreallygoodpeople,butsothat′showI′mabletodoasmuchasIdoanddoitreallywell.IsbecauseI′vedevelopedover25yearsinAustintodoingthis.Likekeypeople,andsomeofmypeopleareevenoutofmarket.Mygraphicdesignerisoutofmarket.Me:Yeah.Them:SoIknowhowtomanipulateallthatina.Inagoodway.Idon′tmeanmanipulatelikemanipulative.IjustmeanIknowhowtopushthebuttonsandlevers.AndIcangetalotofstuffdone.Soifsomeonecomesinandtheydon′thaveanetworklikethat,Idon′tknowhowit′sgoingtohappen.Me:Y.Them:Ifsomeonecomesinandhasawholedifferentsetofphilosophicalbeliefsinthewaymarketingneedstobedone.AndIcantellyouthere′ssomerealdifferentphilosophicalbeliefsthere.Me:Eah.Totally.Them:Idon′tknowhowthey′regoingtogetitdone.Idon′t.Youknow,asmuchasIwouldlovetothinkthatpeopleneedtokeepdoingexactlywhatI′vebeendoing,therealityisthey′renotso.Idon′tknow,dude.Me:Youknowlastweekwhointhatroom?Doyouthinkwouldbemostinteresting,oristhemostenterprisingtosortofwhowantstoworkwithdata?Whoisinterestedinlookingatmetricsandsortoftakingthatanddrivingdecisionmaking.Iknowthat′snotofteneverybody,butwhodoyouthinkisthemostexcitedthatwouldbeagoodpartner?Youknow,for,like,acompanylikeour,youknow,ourgoalistomakethingsmoreclearandmoreapparentandshowthenarrativeof.Allowyoutoshowthenarrativeofwhyyoumakeadecisionthroughdata.Isthereanyonetherethatyouthink,like,thispersonisreallysomeonethatwouldtakeadvantageofthisandthat,that,thatneedsthatsupport?Them:Inthatroom.Me:Inthatrumorifwestartwiththatroom.But,youknow,even,ofcourse,I′mgoingtoaskBroaderNBC.We′renotjustworkingwiththefolksinthatroom,but,yeah.Them:That′sfun.I′mjustreallygoodatpittingyoudownonyourquestions.Inthatroom,nobody.Me:Okay?Them:Inthatroom,nobody.Me:Okay?Them:Imean,lookatitthisway,brother.Everybodyinthatroomhasafulltimeplusjob.Me:Yeah.Them:Sounlessyouweregoingtogivethem.Essentiallyasummary.That′slikeoneparagraph.Me:Letmeanswer.Yeah.Them:Maybetwoparagraphs.Andthenyou′regoingtogooverthereandstandtherewhiletheyreaditandmakesuretheyreadit.Nobodyinthatroom.Me:Doyoufeeloutsideofthatroomorwithintheirteams?IstherealayeratABCdoyouthinkthatweshouldfocusonintermsofenabling?Ofcourse.Partofourjobhereistoanswersomequestions.Alotofourjob,though,istoallowteachpeoplehowtofish.Andmakesurethattheyhavetheright.Idon′tknowwhattheyare.Therightrod,therightlureorwhatever.Ifyouthinkthereisarungorthereisadivision.Youknow,wehavefoundthatthecustomerserviceteamhaseatenupallofthedataandthereareverymetricsdrivengroup,youknow,Yvette,Janice.David.Andsowefoundalotofsuccessthere.Inshowinghowweanalyzemetrics.Doyoufeellikethere′sanotherareaofthecompanythatwouldbeworththinkingabout?Them:No.Imean,soyou′reaskingsomeprettygoodstuff,Ithink.Andthisis,ofcourse.Youknowmyopinionisworthwhatyou′repayingmefor.Inyourcase,zero.That′sajoke.There′snobodyata.That.Thathas.That′sneverbeenaneed,that′sneverbeen.Asrarelyhasthatbeenastateddesire.There′sneverbeenthatjobdescription,ifyouwill,before.There′sneverbeen.That′sjust.It′s.It′snotintrinsictoanyofthe17verticals.Really?Soitdoesn′texist.Coulditexist?Yes.Ifyouabsolutelyhadtopickoneareatodropitinto,thenprobablytheonethat′stheclosestwouldbeDavidand,youknow,avet′steam.Butbeawareoftheproblemhere,man.There′salotof.It′sgoingtovary.It′sgoingtobeonaspectrum.Of.Divisionmanagers.Andyvette.Andthecsrs.There′ssomeacrimonybetweenhowgoodajobandhowcredibleandhowmuch.Belief,anythingthatcomesoutofthat.Thatarea.ThattheCSRarea,theCSRleadership,there′sgoingtobesomeacrimonyabouthowgooditisorhowgooditmaynotbe.Me:Andthen.Them:Butthat′syourmostlogicalplace,asthecompanyexistsrightnow.Me:Y.Eah.Them:Nowtakesomebodylike.SoJuliewouldlovetohave.Juliewouldbegyoutohaveit.ButJulieistheperson.Me:Actually,mepersonally.Them:Julielikestoowninformationandkeepinformationandthenonlyparseitwhenshewantstoparseitout,okay?Butshewoulddowellwithit.She′sdetailoriented.Shelikesreports.Sherunreports,butit′sverymuchkindoflike.Shelikestoholdontothatdataandmakeitsortofherfortowhateverend.Butshehasthenaturalabilitytomaybewanttodothat.Ithinkvet′steam.Ithinkthere′sacoupleoffolksthere,Davidbeingoneofthem.Thathavethatability,thatdesire.Michelle.N.Michelle′sprettysharp.Me:Okay?Them:She′sverymuchadedicatedHRperson.Soit′snotlikeshe′dreallywanttoownthat.Me:Yeah.Them:Butshe′scapable.Soit′saspectrum.Me:Partofitisformyteamtonotgointoaplacewherethebodyimmediatelyrejects.Andsosometimesforustomakearecommendationon,like,okay,wherecanwebesuccessful?Iswe′renotinabc.WecanonlyworkwithABCandpartnerwithandsowe′rejusttryingtomakesure,okay,thisisallpartofourequation.On.Whatarethethingsthatwecansupportwith.Them:Ithinkif.You′resoIthinkhere′sthequestionyouaskyourself,andthatis,hey,doesitfeelprettygoodaboutputtingit.Thenoddsareyou′reatleastprettydarnclose.Me:Butifyourgut′stellingyou.Youknowwhat,man?Idon′tthinkIfoundthepersonorthedepartment.Them:Butifyourgut′stellingyou.Youknowwhat,man?Idon′tthinkIfoundthepersonorthedepartment.Me:ThatI′dsaytrustyourgutbecauseit′sapretty.Them:ThenI′dsaytrustyourgut.Becauseit′saprettylimitedit′saprettylimitedplace.Me:Limited.Place,okay?Lastthingis,howcanIbehelpful?Isthereanythingelse?IsthereanythingIcanhelpwith?Oranything.Ourteam.Iknowwejustmetyesterday.Butifthere′sanythingwecanbehelpfulwithmorethanhappyto.Them:Nowmymissionandthereasonthat.Iwillbehardtocatchforyou.Me:Be.Them:IsI′mthethingthat.SoItoldMattandBobbybackinSeptemberthatIwasretiring.Idon′tthinkuntilyesterdaytheyevenpostedmyjobposition.Me:Yesterday.My.Jobposition.Them:Thewholereasonintellingthemthatfarback.Wassothat,youknow,theycouldgetsomebodyonboardandIcouldspendsometimewiththem.Me:I.Them:Icouldshowthemeverything.Andagain,takewhatyouwanttotake.Youknow,dowhatyouwanttodo.Me:Canshow.Every.Pipe.Dowhatyou.Wanttodo.Them:Well,whenwegotasfaralongaswe′vegottennow,IwentbacktobothofthemacoupleofweeksagoandIsaid,look,man.Me:As.Farawayaswe.Do.Iwent.Acoupleofweeks.Ago.Andsaid,look.Them:I′vealreadystartedbuyingnextyear,sotospeak.Schedulingnextyear.Thatbudgetthatyouwereseeingsomeofyesterdayis.Islastyear′sbudgetbeingreworked.AndI′mprobably.Me:Next.Year.Yesterday.Them:Man.I′mmaybeathirdofthewaythrough.IfI′moptimistic,I′mathirdofthewaythrough.Me:I′moptimist.Ic.Them:Becauseit′slate.It′slatetobedoingwhatI′mdoing.ButwhatI′m.MyfocusistoputasmuchofthatinplaceasIcan.AndtrafficasmuchoftheinstructionsasIcan,meaningthecreativeelementsthatarerequiredtoruninJanuary,February,March,April,May.Certainthingsareprettyeasytotraffic.Me:Pretty.Easytotry.Them:Becausethere′llbeproximaltobydeparture.Me:But.Them:ButIwouldprefernottotrafficstuffforAugustorSeptemberorOctober.Me:I.Wouldprefer.Them:Becausetheenvironmentchanges.Icouldassumethatit′sgoingtobehot,andIcouldassumethatanACcommercialneedstorun.Me:Lots.Offorecasts.Likemorethan.Imean,morethanthreemonths.It′shardtobuyoutandknowifitjustgetshotlater.Them:But.Ido.Idobuyafullyear.Andthat′sjustbecausewe′retoobig.It′stoocumbersometonotbuyafullyear.Me:Okay?Yeah.Just.Them:JustbecauseIdon′t.Imean,it′s5 million and it’s a half dozen cities, and it’s probably, I don’t know, depending on how you count things.
Me: Because. It’s. $5 million.
Them: 50 channels. And I don’t mean just radio and TV. I mean. All the different things and then it’s the different divisions and departments. So, no, I do do a year and essentially I’m going to buy the media for a year and then whenever the. My replacement comes in and they feel like, you know what, he didn’t know what the he was doing. I’m going to tear this up. Well, they can do it on day one.
Me: And. Then what do we. Placement. Comes in. You know? What? I can do.
Them: But at least I’m leaving. Everything in place. And I can traffic some of it. And it can run for a while until somebody gets their feet on the ground.
Me: Until. Somebody gets. To see. What is the timeline? Les. Like, when are you. When are you officially laptop or computer closed? And off the.
Them: March 4th. I turn 65 on March 5th. And my joke that I’ve been telling people is I’ll retire on March 4, and on March 5, when the clock goes off.
Me: Field.
Them: I’m just going to turn it off and roll over and sleep in for a couple hours.
Me: Great. Well, fort collins. Is amazing. I spent about a month and a half. There. A few years ago.
Them: Hope you’re doing up there.
Me: During Covid, I was still living in New York, and it was very difficult. So I bought a truck and I drove around the country for a while.
Them: Good for you. Dude, that is fantastic.
Me: Yeah. I grew up in the bay area in california. And so I went back home. So I couldn’t stay in my shoebox in New York. Couldn’t stay at home either. And then I just went out. My parents didn’t think I was serious. Wouldn’t have rented, leased a truck. And just hit the road for about seven, eight months.
Them: Like a camper or RV or what? What do you call it?
Me: No, it’s a Ford Ranger. And I was Airbnb or staying with friends wherever I could. And I was working remote and people would come visit me at whatever city I was in. Austin.
Them: That’s cool.
Me: The reason I found. I mean, I say I found austin. But growing up in the Bay Area and going to school in the East Coast, I know Austin. I never thought I would ever live in Texas. And so on my way down from. I stayed in Utah, outside of St. George. In St. George for a while, right outside Zion, which is a dream for me to just after work, go to Zion.
Them: Yep. Are you a hiker?
Me: We do a lot of camping growing up. Almost every few weeks. My dad is a huge camping backpacking in Northern California. So whenever I go back.
Them: That’s cool, brother. Now I’m a Texas nf. We grew up, essentially, my wife and I, near Houston. We’ve been in Austin 25 years. The main driver for both of us is just the heat. It’s as. As the globe has warmed, so to speak. The summer’s here can be brutal. How. How many summers have you been here for?
Me: This is the third summer, but this one went pretty long.
Them: So it. You will. It. It really will vary. I mean, there’s. I mean, there was. Let’s see. I. Won’t get it. 2013 maybe. But now it was not that old, but anyway. Yeah, man. Like over a hundred days. Over a hundred or, you know, and then some years, it’s, I don’t know, 30, 40 days, 50 days, over 100. I think that’s about what it was this year, but it’s definitely trending up. And it just beats me and my wife to death.
Me: It just. Makes.
Them: She’s a year younger than me. And, and, and we do like to go out and do. And summers are just brutal. So that’s really the main thing about Colorado, is just to get into a little milder climate. Now the question will be, you know, the winners aren’t. They’re not like Minnesota. But they’re definitely more winter than we’re used to here.
Me: Just. To get.
Them: So am I Just trading one evil for another evil? I don’t know.
Me: Yeah.
Them: But.
Me: It’s always grass is greener, it’s beautiful. In fort collins. I feel like I just picked it on a map and decided to stay there. But sleepy college town. Just like, really, really nice.
Them: Love it.
Me: Yeah.
Them: Love it. Covid was interesting. And again, it was a boon. I don’t know how much of this you know or how much of this you know. You disagree with. But, you know, Covid was that thing that came in and most every business, except maybe a hospital or a doctor’s office. Thought. Oh, I don’t know what this is going to mean for my business. And we were, we were that. I mean, this, the, our service industry and our 17 verticals were that.
Me: Yeah.
Them: And it was really spooky. But a few months in. Business was booming. And then in hindsight, I. I think. I’ve not. I’ve not improved it. I’ve not proved it empirically. I’ve not proved it with a spreadsheet. But I think it makes pretty clear sense that people couldn’t go spend money in a restaurant or go to a concert or go to acl. Or go on that jet to Paris. You know, all of those things got curtailed, shipped. They couldn’t even go down the street to the restaurant, hardly. So they weren’t spending much money. They were spending more time in their houses.
Me: All of. Those things. Don’t protect. Shit like the big. House. Yes.
Them: And consequently, not only were you spending more time in your house, But what were you doing? You were wearing and tearing on your house.
Me: But. What we do.
Them: That light switch got flipped more. That toilet got flushed more, that air conditioning got run more.
Me: Get. To make.
Them: That door got slammed more. All of those things, right? And so it turned out it was really good business for the home, for the home service business because of wear and tear.
Me: Is really. Good.
Them: And because of a consumer’s fatter wallet at the time.
Me: Y. Eah. Now. I think it changed. It led to a series of domino effects. That brings me here with you on this meeting today. Without Covid, I would may still be in New York, still working for somebody. And I changed my life. I feel lucky that it changed my life in a very positive way. Could have easily went the other way. You’ll find this funny. I joined a company whose primary product was QR codes one month before March20. March 2020. And that was completely luck.
Them: Yeah. Yeah, man. You. You. Because QR codes were all but kind of a dead item on. Not bad. But, I mean, they certainly hadn’t found a comfortable home.
Me: They were just thinking about. Yeah, they were just thinking about it. They were an ad agency. About searching to build a product. They were ideating on a bunch of things landed on qr. Some people found it interesting, especially because you can now get the data back on sources where Nielsen owns all the data. For example, you couldn’t get how many scans were on a billboard. Or on the side of a display. And so they just were like, we’re going to think about this QR code. I got hired, and then Covid hit, and then that business just completely exploded. They’re one of the largest provider of QR codes. But in terms of volumes of QR scans and big pioneer a lot of going to Sinclair. We did a lot of work with Sinclair on getting QR codes on local news and things like that. But again, I don’t know. I don’t know if that business would have gone anywhere had not happened. But very.
Them: I think it. I mean, honestly, it taught a whole generation of people how to use a QR code.
Me: It’s hot.
Them: Because if you never really taking your phone out, opened up your camera.
Me: I was a nerd. I always knew that sort of stuff. I always had an Android and stuff like that, but no.
Them: There were less people that knew, okay?
Me: Yeah.
Them: So, but pretty quickly, when they went to one of the few restaurants that was letting you sit on the patio or whatever. And instead of getting handed a menu, the waiter or waitress who were wearing a mask. Pointed at that little strange looking thing on the table and said, point your phone at that. Then there was a whole group of people that was like, oh, okay.
Me: Okay? I appreciate it. This was really wonderful. Thank you for the time.
Them: Yeah, brother.
Me: As we make progress. I’ll definitely try to share things, and I appreciate the wisdom. I think this is one of the calls where we’re talking to a lot of folks, but it’s really helpful to hear how the machine works and how to work well within the machine.
Them: The machine is. There’s so many parts. And my advice to you would be real careful to not be too focused on just one part. I mean, really explore the. The width or the breadth of it.
Me: Focus. On just one.
Them: Because there’s so much nuance.
Me: Because. We’re so.
Them: I mean. In Jay’s area, in the lawn area. Again. Some of the estimates are free. Some of the estimates are not. Some of the people do it one way.
Me: Free. Something has to. Construct.
Them: One of the departments does it one way they base it’s like the number of square foot and the feed feet and the lawn, so to speak. And then something else is like an irrigation, which is also in that same department. It’s like, well, how many hours is it going to take to fix that?
Me: It’s like. Something. Else. Which. Is also. Going to. Help.
Them: And how many sprinkler heads are there? Artificial turf. It’s like, oh, well, how big is the area that you’re going to put turf down?
Me: People. Turn things.
Them: And what kind of turf? I mean. Even when you think that one division is functions, like in this button down way, it’s like, oh, man. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that every department, even in that division, not to mention the different divisions, how they function. So explore that breadth. Get out of Matt and Bobby’s office. Because their view of things is skewed, because they sit in an ivory tower. And. Do a lot of have a lot of conversations and then assess people. And see what you think.
Me: Okay? Perfect. Well, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Hope to see you in the office. Soon.