2026-01-06_lilo_estimate_and_roadmap_p2_p3_fa6565c3

Meeting Title: Lilo: Estimate and Roadmap P2 + P3 Date: 2026-01-06 Meeting participants: Pranav Narahari, Samuel Roberts, Clarence Stone

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1 00:00:43.990 ⇒ 00:00:44.800 Samuel Roberts: 8.

2 00:00:46.340 ⇒ 00:00:47.330 Pranav Narahari: Hey, Sam.

3 00:00:48.860 ⇒ 00:00:49.630 Samuel Roberts: How’s it going?

4 00:00:50.210 ⇒ 00:00:51.479 Pranav Narahari: Good, good, how you doing?

5 00:00:51.800 ⇒ 00:00:56.599 Samuel Roberts: Alright, I’m eating a lunch right now, so I might take camera off for a minute.

6 00:00:56.830 ⇒ 00:00:57.649 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, yeah.

7 00:00:58.030 ⇒ 00:01:03.179 Pranav Narahari: I’m going to share my screen and just show you… what I have so far.

8 00:01:03.250 ⇒ 00:01:04.069 Samuel Roberts: Perfect.

9 00:01:11.980 ⇒ 00:01:23.210 Pranav Narahari: Okay… So… Yeah, we might actually… I need to estimate Phase 3 as well,

10 00:01:24.450 ⇒ 00:01:29.650 Pranav Narahari: I think it probably makes sense for me to, like, first do a pass of that, and I haven’t gone to that yet, so…

11 00:01:29.650 ⇒ 00:01:30.150 Samuel Roberts: Okay.

12 00:01:30.150 ⇒ 00:01:32.189 Pranav Narahari: We can just set up another time, like…

13 00:01:32.400 ⇒ 00:01:36.349 Pranav Narahari: Later today, I guess? Actually, UTAM does want that.

14 00:01:36.520 ⇒ 00:01:38.110 Pranav Narahari: Today, so…

15 00:01:38.110 ⇒ 00:01:38.560 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

16 00:01:39.750 ⇒ 00:01:44.600 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I’ll spend a little bit of time on that. So, honestly, we might be able to even cut this…

17 00:01:44.700 ⇒ 00:01:46.420 Pranav Narahari: This one’s short.

18 00:01:46.760 ⇒ 00:01:47.250 Samuel Roberts: Okay.

19 00:01:47.250 ⇒ 00:01:51.840 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, because actually, just as we joined this call, I realized, okay, Phase 3 also needs to be done.

20 00:01:51.840 ⇒ 00:01:53.289 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, okay.

21 00:01:53.290 ⇒ 00:01:59.360 Pranav Narahari: It’s kind of bulky, like, there’s, like, 3 different things that this is split up into.

22 00:01:59.360 ⇒ 00:02:00.080 Samuel Roberts: Rape.

23 00:02:00.080 ⇒ 00:02:05.680 Pranav Narahari: POC, MVP, and V1. Did you have a chance to, like, read this PRD?

24 00:02:06.060 ⇒ 00:02:08.240 Samuel Roberts: I think I did a while back, but I haven’t…

25 00:02:08.240 ⇒ 00:02:09.100 Pranav Narahari: Wild team in here.

26 00:02:09.100 ⇒ 00:02:12.789 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, so I’m not fully up to date, but it’s the forecast builder, right?

27 00:02:13.340 ⇒ 00:02:17.350 Pranav Narahari: It’s a forecast. Exactly, yup, yup.

28 00:02:18.380 ⇒ 00:02:22.290 Pranav Narahari: Cool, so… proof of concept,

29 00:02:22.950 ⇒ 00:02:27.589 Pranav Narahari: basically how I see that as… it’s just basically…

30 00:02:28.990 ⇒ 00:02:46.900 Pranav Narahari: you know, there’s not much that needs to be done there. We need to just basically pull down the data in a JSON or CSV from Shopify, and it’s just for one brand, and so I see that either as just, like, a button click, you know, it’s like, as easy as that, or maybe it can be a little bit more complicated,

31 00:02:47.360 ⇒ 00:03:06.489 Pranav Narahari: with that data, maybe we need to manipulate it so it’s, like, actually usable for whatever script we build, or maybe it’s easier for the script to do that itself. So I put a… I feel like the minimum should just be, like, 3 to 6 hours. Happy to put that down to, like, 2 to 4, maybe, but I just put 3 to 6. I think,

32 00:03:08.130 ⇒ 00:03:18.680 Pranav Narahari: You know, we might need to be pulling it from multiple different places, in case, like… because there’s also the 24 months that we’ll be looking for, as well as,

33 00:03:19.500 ⇒ 00:03:25.770 Pranav Narahari: Maybe for, like, different, like, campaigns or something like that. It might be…

34 00:03:26.330 ⇒ 00:03:32.270 Pranav Narahari: It might… Yeah, I don’t know what typical looks like exactly, but… Yeah. Since we just don’t know, that’s why I just put 3 to 6.

35 00:03:32.270 ⇒ 00:03:37.340 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I think that’s fine. I mean, yeah, we’re not building, like, a pipeline yet, we’re just getting the data, right?

36 00:03:37.340 ⇒ 00:03:45.319 Pranav Narahari: Exactly, that’s just getting the data. Then, they have that Orca, notebook, right? I don’t know if you’ve heard of that.

37 00:03:46.180 ⇒ 00:04:02.519 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, and so the script is there, so I’m assuming that there’s not gonna be a ton of manipulation that needs to be done to that to get it working for this application, so I just put 8 to 16, you know, it’s like 1-2 days effort to, like, get that script running to, like.

38 00:04:02.600 ⇒ 00:04:07.180 Pranav Narahari: Get it to a point where it’s, like, just calculating the retention rates.

39 00:04:07.540 ⇒ 00:04:12.259 Samuel Roberts: That’ll… Be… that’ll guide us on what data we need as well, right?

40 00:04:12.500 ⇒ 00:04:14.750 Samuel Roberts: how the shape of the data from Shopify needs to be.

41 00:04:15.370 ⇒ 00:04:19.410 Pranav Narahari: Yes, yeah, yeah, so it’s, like, a little bit of just, like, research as well.

42 00:04:19.410 ⇒ 00:04:20.629 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, okay, cool.

43 00:04:20.750 ⇒ 00:04:21.470 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

44 00:04:21.800 ⇒ 00:04:29.319 Pranav Narahari: And then, backtesting and validation, I kind of turned that into also, like, okay, this is like a…

45 00:04:29.610 ⇒ 00:04:31.269 Pranav Narahari: This is a little bit of just, like.

46 00:04:31.950 ⇒ 00:04:35.800 Pranav Narahari: just testing in general, right? Are we getting the right numbers?

47 00:04:37.330 ⇒ 00:04:52.000 Pranav Narahari: And so, yeah, 48 hours. And then subscription brand handling. Basically, by the way they described it, it sounds like this is going to be an edge case that might require a different script, or, like, just, like, a different…

48 00:04:53.970 ⇒ 00:05:00.010 Pranav Narahari: Like, in this tree, like, there’s gonna be, like, an if-else, like, that… it might be, like, another branch, essentially.

49 00:05:00.010 ⇒ 00:05:02.279 Samuel Roberts: And so that’s why I just kind of, like…

50 00:05:02.290 ⇒ 00:05:15.649 Pranav Narahari: I bel… I can’t see there being too much difference when there’s just this, like, subscription revenue versus, like, one-time revenue. I would hope that Shopify’s gonna have a pretty consistent, like, data model for that.

51 00:05:15.650 ⇒ 00:05:19.390 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I don’t think it does, because I don’t think Shopify does it natively. I think there’s an add-on.

52 00:05:20.200 ⇒ 00:05:22.019 Pranav Narahari: Oh, okay. Yeah, so…

53 00:05:22.020 ⇒ 00:05:24.079 Samuel Roberts: my experience with Shopify when I was doing

54 00:05:24.320 ⇒ 00:05:28.580 Samuel Roberts: the hair care brand. We had to have a separate It’s called Recharge.

55 00:05:29.370 ⇒ 00:05:32.910 Samuel Roberts: Gotcha. And handle, like, recurring charges.

56 00:05:33.560 ⇒ 00:05:34.890 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha, okay, okay.

57 00:05:35.070 ⇒ 00:05:38.710 Samuel Roberts: That could be a different source, I’m not sure where the data lives for all that.

58 00:05:39.690 ⇒ 00:05:48.329 Pranav Narahari: Cool, yeah, so it might even be even easier, like, we’ll probably definitely hit the bottom of this range then, but I think 6 to 12 is, like, good, you know, like.

59 00:05:48.430 ⇒ 00:05:51.009 Pranav Narahari: Little less than a day to, like, one and a half days.

60 00:05:51.390 ⇒ 00:05:57.229 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, and so basically, right, what’s important is, like, how long this whole overall thing is gonna take.

61 00:05:57.230 ⇒ 00:05:57.820 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

62 00:05:57.820 ⇒ 00:05:58.420 Pranav Narahari: like.

63 00:05:58.890 ⇒ 00:06:14.530 Pranav Narahari: 21 hours, basically, with one engineer working half-time, like, they’ll get it done within a week, or two weeks. Or if it’s me, who… it’s likely that I’m gonna be working full-time on this, like, it’s almost definitely gonna get done in a week, which I think makes sense for a POC.

64 00:06:16.640 ⇒ 00:06:17.550 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

65 00:06:19.810 ⇒ 00:06:24.459 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, cause you don’t have… 40 hours of business, certainly, because you have other…

66 00:06:24.730 ⇒ 00:06:27.659 Samuel Roberts: like, tasks, I guess, related to this, but…

67 00:06:30.320 ⇒ 00:06:34.969 Samuel Roberts: You know, like, 40 hours is not your pure depth time, but I see what you’re saying.

68 00:06:36.100 ⇒ 00:06:41.230 Pranav Narahari: Yeah. Actually, yeah, that’s one thing that I was thinking about before, like, so when we have…

69 00:06:41.490 ⇒ 00:06:47.490 Pranav Narahari: like, let’s say right now, right, I have 30 hours on Lilo, like… That’s, I thought…

70 00:06:48.280 ⇒ 00:06:58.910 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, like, in terms, like, when I put that in Clockify, like, where do I bill all of that if some of that’s also going into… and then maybe… hey, Clarence, like, maybe that’s a question for you, yeah.

71 00:06:58.910 ⇒ 00:07:02.779 Samuel Roberts: Yeah. Like, does that also go into, like.

72 00:07:02.910 ⇒ 00:07:04.980 Pranav Narahari: Is there a bucket for, like, SL work?

73 00:07:04.980 ⇒ 00:07:07.669 Clarence Stone: you guys were talking about, I wasn’t fully listening.

74 00:07:07.670 ⇒ 00:07:13.499 Samuel Roberts: You’re good, you’re good. I think the… yeah, I think I can probably answer this, but I think it would still go to Lilo, it just, you would, you know, call it…

75 00:07:14.140 ⇒ 00:07:21.099 Samuel Roberts: whatever, like, EP time, you know, managing Lanier or something. I’m just thinking about it from the perspective of, like, the times that we have here.

76 00:07:21.620 ⇒ 00:07:26.930 Samuel Roberts: It’s not, you know, your 40 hours a week is not 40 hours of dev time, necessarily, you know?

77 00:07:26.930 ⇒ 00:07:36.090 Clarence Stone: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, sorry, you guys are asking, like, how do we make the distinguishment between, like, development time and, like, project management time that’s related?

78 00:07:36.090 ⇒ 00:07:40.039 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, and I think he was wondering, like, in Clockify and stuff, too. I imagine it still goes to the client.

79 00:07:40.040 ⇒ 00:07:49.029 Clarence Stone: That’s such a great call-out, Sam. I think, you know, it would be helpful for us to get some intel on how much you guys are spending on one side or the other.

80 00:07:49.030 ⇒ 00:07:49.550 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

81 00:07:49.550 ⇒ 00:08:05.959 Clarence Stone: And that’s usually handled with, like, subcodes within, you know, your timekeeping system. But I’m gonna be very honest with you guys, and I really want your gut instinct on this. Ideally, I don’t want to have to track anybody’s hours. I don’t want you guys to have to

82 00:08:06.010 ⇒ 00:08:21.140 Clarence Stone: submit any hours. Because, like, strategically, we’re bringing everybody into the salary rolls. I think if you’re salaried, like, what is the point? I, like, I feel really bad asking people to, like, spend time just submitting hours.

83 00:08:21.140 ⇒ 00:08:23.300 Samuel Roberts: I understand that, yeah, I appreciate that.

84 00:08:23.300 ⇒ 00:08:29.600 Clarence Stone: So my ideal world, it wouldn’t exist at all, and it… and I feel…

85 00:08:30.200 ⇒ 00:08:36.350 Clarence Stone: I feel really bad adding this level of complexity, saying, tell me how much you spend on management and actually development.

86 00:08:36.350 ⇒ 00:08:37.130 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

87 00:08:37.130 ⇒ 00:08:44.099 Clarence Stone: So… can… you know, I can just, like, pretend like the problem doesn’t exist, and we’re not gonna talk.

88 00:08:44.100 ⇒ 00:08:45.129 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, no, I think…

89 00:08:45.130 ⇒ 00:08:45.909 Clarence Stone: I think you’re absolutely right.

90 00:08:45.910 ⇒ 00:08:55.520 Samuel Roberts: I think, you know, we don’t really have… like, when I’m logging my hours on Clockify, I try to give, like, a description, but, like, I don’t think we really have, like, a code necessarily, but there’s the project-specific.

91 00:08:55.520 ⇒ 00:09:04.059 Clarence Stone: So in terms of, like, your project estimate, I would just bundle those two, you know, aspects of your role together into one hourly estimate.

92 00:09:04.380 ⇒ 00:09:12.599 Pranav Narahari: Okay, I see what you’re saying. Like, I actually do think of this as bundling it all together, not as, like, dev work versus other work.

93 00:09:13.110 ⇒ 00:09:14.919 Samuel Roberts: Right, but I’m just trying to think, like…

94 00:09:15.090 ⇒ 00:09:19.380 Samuel Roberts: There’s your role as, like, the developer, the engineer.

95 00:09:19.640 ⇒ 00:09:20.260 Pranav Narahari: Yup.

96 00:09:20.480 ⇒ 00:09:25.820 Samuel Roberts: And so, like, if Shopify data ingestion is gonna take you 3 to 6 hours, that’s specific to that task, you know?

97 00:09:26.250 ⇒ 00:09:34.300 Pranav Narahari: But I also include, like, maybe meetings that we need to have, including, like, stand-ups, where we talk about that, and so I feel like it bakes in the…

98 00:09:34.700 ⇒ 00:09:39.499 Pranav Narahari: the… the project, like, not… not including dev work in there.

99 00:09:39.960 ⇒ 00:09:45.939 Samuel Roberts: Hmm, but in a meeting, it would be like, you know, like, this meeting is, you know, double counting for us, you know?

100 00:09:47.130 ⇒ 00:09:50.989 Pranav Narahari: It would just make the… if we’re gonna do that, and I… I’m not…

101 00:09:51.460 ⇒ 00:09:53.929 Samuel Roberts: sure, necessarily, how I feel one way or the other.

102 00:09:54.150 ⇒ 00:09:57.860 Samuel Roberts: You know, your range of hours spent on that

103 00:09:59.020 ⇒ 00:10:02.400 Samuel Roberts: Would be, like, if it’s, like, man hours, different.

104 00:10:02.940 ⇒ 00:10:04.710 Pranav Narahari: Where’s the double counting?

105 00:10:05.150 ⇒ 00:10:08.400 Samuel Roberts: Like, in this meeting, we’re each spending 30 minutes or an hour, right?

106 00:10:08.920 ⇒ 00:10:12.230 Samuel Roberts: on Lilo. So, like, if we’re estimating…

107 00:10:12.340 ⇒ 00:10:20.470 Samuel Roberts: the time it takes for that. Like, this is not an estimation of, like, it will be 3 to 6 engineer hours versus architect hours versus… which, again.

108 00:10:20.470 ⇒ 00:10:29.740 Clarence Stone: It’s just really easy, like, I think you can just make a line item deliverable as, like, like, project management time or project collaboration time, and just.

109 00:10:29.740 ⇒ 00:10:30.290 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

110 00:10:30.290 ⇒ 00:10:34.700 Clarence Stone: all your standard meetings that you’re gonna have with Pranav into that line item.

111 00:10:35.210 ⇒ 00:10:42.660 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, no, I’m not necessarily worried about that. I’m just thinking from the, like, estimate of how long this will take, and then in terms of, like, planning the Gantt.

112 00:10:43.110 ⇒ 00:10:44.020 Samuel Roberts: like…

113 00:10:44.210 ⇒ 00:10:50.609 Samuel Roberts: Knowing that, like, you don’t have 40 hours a week of dev time to spend on these four things.

114 00:10:51.110 ⇒ 00:10:52.130 Samuel Roberts: Does that make sense?

115 00:10:53.040 ⇒ 00:11:02.660 Samuel Roberts: Gotcha. It’s still, like, I mean, sometimes when you do, like, sprint planning or something, you know, you might assume that you’re working an 8-hour day, but only 6 of those hours are going to, like, time at the keyboard coding.

116 00:11:02.900 ⇒ 00:11:03.709 Samuel Roberts: Does that make sense?

117 00:11:03.710 ⇒ 00:11:04.270 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

118 00:11:04.270 ⇒ 00:11:06.360 Samuel Roberts: just… I just want to be, like, explicit

119 00:11:06.620 ⇒ 00:11:14.120 Samuel Roberts: At least in our minds, that, you know, when we say 42 hours, that’s not necessarily 2 weeks half-time.

120 00:11:14.230 ⇒ 00:11:15.420 Samuel Roberts: Or one week.

121 00:11:16.040 ⇒ 00:11:22.480 Samuel Roberts: it’s potentially a little more. And this might be more clear when we get into the Gantt, I just want to make sure that it’s, like.

122 00:11:23.980 ⇒ 00:11:24.420 Pranav Narahari: Understood.

123 00:11:24.420 ⇒ 00:11:31.690 Samuel Roberts: to what we’re estimating these hours to be. Like, if it’s kind of bundled in, that’s fair, but I think I’m almost inclined…

124 00:11:32.120 ⇒ 00:11:37.060 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, to your point, and like, I think Clarence had a good idea, like, let’s just have another…

125 00:11:37.060 ⇒ 00:11:53.339 Pranav Narahari: you know, it’s not really a deliverable, I’ll probably just change that column name. But we should just have a, like, you know, project meetings, because usually how I’ve experienced this in the past, right, it’s more of, like, a PM engineer, right? Like, and we’re moving away from that, which I like.

126 00:11:53.340 ⇒ 00:12:09.139 Pranav Narahari: But before, it would be like, okay, the PM has this many hours, and then the engineer has this many hours. The PM, kind of, like, those hours are all, like, the project management, and then the engineer is obviously, like, the coding. And so in that way, it’s like, everything is covered, and then that…

127 00:12:09.170 ⇒ 00:12:15.370 Pranav Narahari: that summary shows, like, the estimate pretty accurately, and this summary, how I see it, is like…

128 00:12:15.420 ⇒ 00:12:26.699 Pranav Narahari: if we put 42 hours in there, the… and let’s just say, like, okay, I’m working 40 hours, and just to make this, like, super… just super clear, let’s just pretend that maximum estimate said 40 hours.

129 00:12:26.700 ⇒ 00:12:27.290 Samuel Roberts: Sure.

130 00:12:27.550 ⇒ 00:12:33.960 Pranav Narahari: Bobby’s gonna assume that, like, okay, if we start Monday morning, we’re gonna have this done by Friday night.

131 00:12:34.560 ⇒ 00:12:38.409 Pranav Narahari: Right? And so we need to make it clear, like, to your point, Sam, like.

132 00:12:38.870 ⇒ 00:12:46.080 Pranav Narahari: If we don’t feel like this is gonna get done in a week, then we have to, like, show that in some way to the client.

133 00:12:46.080 ⇒ 00:12:54.429 Samuel Roberts: Yes. Yeah, and I think that’s where the Gantt would come in, where, you know, if you estimate, say, 6 hours for this Shopify data ingestion, are we saying 6 hours

134 00:12:54.920 ⇒ 00:12:59.759 Samuel Roberts: At the keyboard coding, In which case, that would not just be, you know.

135 00:13:00.450 ⇒ 00:13:11.959 Clarence Stone: That’s like a whole day, you know what I mean? In terms of coding. I think you should include everything that’s gonna be related to that base deliverable, because, like, as a customer, I’m not gonna care.

136 00:13:11.960 ⇒ 00:13:12.660 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

137 00:13:12.660 ⇒ 00:13:18.710 Clarence Stone: spent, like, I don’t care that you spend 3 out of the 6 hours just on a meeting, and it took you 20 minutes to execute it, right?

138 00:13:18.710 ⇒ 00:13:19.050 Pranav Narahari: Right.

139 00:13:19.050 ⇒ 00:13:23.619 Clarence Stone: what it cost me to pay you to get that Shopify data ingestion.

140 00:13:23.620 ⇒ 00:13:30.630 Samuel Roberts: No, that I understand. I’m just thinking from the, like, our planning, like, allocations and resources, you know what I mean? Like…

141 00:13:31.010 ⇒ 00:13:37.169 Samuel Roberts: if we’re gonna take this and put it into a Gantt, I think that would show the actual, like, when things are gonna get done.

142 00:13:37.170 ⇒ 00:13:38.730 Clarence Stone: Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely, sorry.

143 00:13:38.730 ⇒ 00:13:45.219 Samuel Roberts: Like, if… I’m saying, like, this, I almost want to keep when we’re doing our estimates of tasks, or, like, linear tickets or things.

144 00:13:45.670 ⇒ 00:13:47.070 Samuel Roberts: To be the, like.

145 00:13:47.900 ⇒ 00:13:52.800 Samuel Roberts: heads down time, because we’re not going to have linear tickets, for example, for, like, meetings and stuff, right?

146 00:13:52.800 ⇒ 00:13:53.639 Clarence Stone: Yep, that’s right.

147 00:13:53.640 ⇒ 00:14:02.430 Samuel Roberts: Like, we’ll still log those hours right now, because we’re logging Clockify, and I mean, kind of to your point about, like, not logging stuff, I am fully on board with that, but I think…

148 00:14:02.600 ⇒ 00:14:07.680 Samuel Roberts: Like, for, you know, like, profit analysis and stuff for a client.

149 00:14:07.860 ⇒ 00:14:09.249 Clarence Stone: So, I’ve already thought…

150 00:14:09.250 ⇒ 00:14:10.920 Samuel Roberts: Okay, cool.

151 00:14:10.920 ⇒ 00:14:19.249 Clarence Stone: If I take all the ticket hours from linear and subtract it from total hours charged to the project, I can still get your admin hours.

152 00:14:19.410 ⇒ 00:14:23.950 Samuel Roberts: That’s perfect. Okay, so yeah, then if you stop after that, great. Okay. I just know that that’s what we’ve done sometimes.

153 00:14:23.950 ⇒ 00:14:33.350 Clarence Stone: I would rather do that and say, hey guys, pick the right, you know, code, stop using the wrong codes. I came from a world that did that, and I absolutely don’t want to build.

154 00:14:33.350 ⇒ 00:14:44.609 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, no, I do not want that either. Like, honestly, like, even me, like, I’m so bad with the descriptions in Clockify, but I see what you’re saying. I, you know, as a separate thing, I fully… I’m on board with doing something like that.

155 00:14:44.610 ⇒ 00:15:07.100 Clarence Stone: So, what you guys are doing is perfect. Like, right now, don’t get too focused on how you’re gonna sequence everything. I think I would just talk about, like, hey, what is it that we need to build? What is everything that goes into it? And how long does these individual component parts take, right? Exactly. Because, like, guys, what were you doing before when you picked up a ticket and you had to have meetings to discuss what you would have to build?

156 00:15:07.410 ⇒ 00:15:09.869 Clarence Stone: Where was that time being billed before?

157 00:15:10.680 ⇒ 00:15:11.839 Samuel Roberts: Hmm, good question.

158 00:15:13.020 ⇒ 00:15:18.149 Samuel Roberts: I suppose… I mean, the being billed was definitely to the client, in terms of logged in Clockify.

159 00:15:18.420 ⇒ 00:15:25.210 Clarence Stone: Yeah, but like, you know, like, in terms of our estimations, when you pick up a ticket from Linear when you pass, right, and it was a.

160 00:15:25.210 ⇒ 00:15:25.680 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

161 00:15:25.680 ⇒ 00:15:29.249 Clarence Stone: that required conversations, like, how did you…

162 00:15:29.280 ⇒ 00:15:36.790 Samuel Roberts: account for all those hours. Like, Linear might say it takes you 3 hours to debit, but, like, you probably sat in another hour worth of calls.

163 00:15:36.890 ⇒ 00:15:39.720 Clarence Stone: Like, you submitted 4 hours, right?

164 00:15:39.720 ⇒ 00:15:41.509 Samuel Roberts: Right, right, yeah, the Clockify end.

165 00:15:41.510 ⇒ 00:15:46.960 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so here, in your hour range, like, it should include everything, including the meeting.

166 00:15:47.800 ⇒ 00:15:52.489 Clarence Stone: Later, I’m only gonna see how long it took you to do that ticket, and that’s how I can.

167 00:15:52.490 ⇒ 00:16:03.480 Samuel Roberts: I see, okay, okay, I can see that, I can see that. Yeah, I guess I was thinking this is kind of in line with, like, if we were to break Shopify ingestion into a few linear tickets, it would sum to this 3 to 6 hours.

168 00:16:03.940 ⇒ 00:16:05.010 Samuel Roberts: But, you’re saying…

169 00:16:05.250 ⇒ 00:16:05.750 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

170 00:16:05.750 ⇒ 00:16:15.559 Samuel Roberts: shouldn’t… we should include all the time spent on that, which is a little hard to estimate, I guess, because there’s, like, meetings with overlaps and things, but, like, ignoring that, I think you’re right.

171 00:16:15.560 ⇒ 00:16:20.279 Clarence Stone: I think if you can estimate well on bi-week deliverables.

172 00:16:20.380 ⇒ 00:16:25.939 Clarence Stone: like, the EP role is crushing it. Yeah. So, like, it doesn’t have to be down to, like.

173 00:16:26.500 ⇒ 00:16:28.069 Clarence Stone: Precise hours, right?

174 00:16:28.070 ⇒ 00:16:28.780 Samuel Roberts: Oh, no, of course.

175 00:16:28.780 ⇒ 00:16:37.199 Clarence Stone: Like, hey, like, this Shopify data ingestion thing is gonna take us, like, or everything in this POC is gonna take us a week. Okay.

176 00:16:37.600 ⇒ 00:16:41.520 Clarence Stone: I mean, that… Alright? Like, we can go from there, right?

177 00:16:41.520 ⇒ 00:16:43.330 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense, that makes sense.

178 00:16:43.770 ⇒ 00:16:44.610 Samuel Roberts: Okay.

179 00:16:45.170 ⇒ 00:16:54.079 Pranav Narahari: Cool. So I think… yeah, and how I was building this too, was including all that meeting time, because how…

180 00:16:54.660 ⇒ 00:16:58.039 Pranav Narahari: about it was, like, this is a deliverable to a client, so, like.

181 00:16:58.380 ⇒ 00:17:10.509 Pranav Narahari: they can expect after… obviously, they won’t do this, because we’ll kind of do a lot of this in parallel, but the Shopify data ingestion will be done after 6 hours, you know? They don’t know how we spent those 6 hours, whether it was, like, fingers on.

182 00:17:10.510 ⇒ 00:17:11.050 Samuel Roberts: Sure, sure.

183 00:17:11.160 ⇒ 00:17:21.900 Pranav Narahari: Whether it was, like, me and you discussing, but after 6 hours, that gets done. And then, at the end of the week, which is more likely, like, when they’ll, like, check in, is, like, after 42 hours, everything will be done.

184 00:17:24.589 ⇒ 00:17:26.389 Samuel Roberts: Okay, yeah, I mean, I think…

185 00:17:27.760 ⇒ 00:17:33.930 Samuel Roberts: I think there’s still a translation between this and the Gantt in terms of, like, Allocations of time

186 00:17:34.040 ⇒ 00:17:37.110 Samuel Roberts: On a… on a daily, weekly basis, where, like.

187 00:17:37.880 ⇒ 00:17:47.780 Samuel Roberts: you know, things… yeah, I get what you’re saying, though, and I think if this is going to the client, 100%, I mean, I’m not exactly sure where Uten wants to settle on, like, what they see here versus what they see in the Gantt.

188 00:17:47.990 ⇒ 00:17:52.679 Samuel Roberts: Because you’re right, they don’t really care about, it takes 6 hours to do that, they care about when’s it done, and…

189 00:17:53.000 ⇒ 00:17:56.859 Samuel Roberts: You know, especially if someone’s moving away from, like, hourly

190 00:17:57.000 ⇒ 00:18:02.040 Samuel Roberts: kind of estimates and just based on output, like, that’s less relevant, too? Okay.

191 00:18:02.560 ⇒ 00:18:22.259 Clarence Stone: I can help you once you get to the Gantt. It’s not going to be any different than what you have here, except the Gantt takes into account all the other things that need to occur for this plan to work out perfectly. So, just for some context, maybe to do the subscription brand handling, you need to have a meeting with Lilo.

192 00:18:22.260 ⇒ 00:18:23.080 Samuel Roberts: Sure, sure.

193 00:18:23.080 ⇒ 00:18:25.469 Clarence Stone: I see that, yeah. You planned in your day.

194 00:18:25.680 ⇒ 00:18:33.239 Clarence Stone: Maybe for backtesting, you need, maybe you need 4 hours from Oasis time. I’m just making something up.

195 00:18:33.240 ⇒ 00:18:34.850 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah, of course. No, I see what you’re saying.

196 00:18:34.850 ⇒ 00:18:40.079 Clarence Stone: And that’s where you would put it in the Gantt, saying, like, hey, somewhere in this week, we have to do it.

197 00:18:40.430 ⇒ 00:18:41.180 Clarence Stone: Right?

198 00:18:41.180 ⇒ 00:18:41.790 Samuel Roberts: Right, right.

199 00:18:41.790 ⇒ 00:18:43.340 Clarence Stone: Somebody else involved, yeah.

200 00:18:43.340 ⇒ 00:18:45.249 Samuel Roberts: That makes sense, that makes sense. But, like…

201 00:18:45.460 ⇒ 00:18:51.530 Samuel Roberts: makes sense right now to just, like, do the GAN for that POC? That’s kind of what I was… yeah, that was definitely the next step in my mind, so…

202 00:18:51.530 ⇒ 00:18:54.019 Pranav Narahari: Cool, let’s do it.

203 00:18:54.470 ⇒ 00:19:00.119 Pranav Narahari: Okay, so… Let me figure out how this is formatted right now, so…

204 00:19:00.120 ⇒ 00:19:02.060 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, close the… yeah, there you go.

205 00:19:02.200 ⇒ 00:19:07.409 Pranav Narahari: Okay, so this is all Phase 1, so Phase 2 is here. Okay, cool. So let’s,

206 00:19:07.650 ⇒ 00:19:10.129 Pranav Narahari: Add each of those tasks, I guess?

207 00:19:14.860 ⇒ 00:19:15.820 Pranav Narahari: Okay.

208 00:19:16.150 ⇒ 00:19:20.670 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, this is where it’s annoying, like, translating between the two apps, basically.

209 00:19:22.430 ⇒ 00:19:22.930 Pranav Narahari: Yup.

210 00:19:22.930 ⇒ 00:19:26.090 Samuel Roberts: We need a good, like, Gantt, like, from text.

211 00:19:26.260 ⇒ 00:19:29.370 Samuel Roberts: Kind of thing, and then AI can do this for us a little bit better, too.

212 00:19:29.690 ⇒ 00:19:31.650 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, yeah, I think…

213 00:19:32.010 ⇒ 00:19:36.759 Pranav Narahari: Is UTOM already doing something like that? I forget what he said about, like, why he chose Instagant for this.

214 00:19:36.760 ⇒ 00:19:38.230 Samuel Roberts: Once again, was the, like…

215 00:19:39.200 ⇒ 00:19:50.169 Samuel Roberts: the… what’s the word I’m trying to think of? The, like, least bad option, basically, from what you played around with. Like, there were a couple other tools we looked at. I did a little bit of quick research, but that’s actually something we may want to, like.

216 00:19:50.340 ⇒ 00:19:54.040 Samuel Roberts: On the internal side of things, take a… Take a look at…

217 00:19:54.270 ⇒ 00:19:54.930 Pranav Narahari: Okay.

218 00:19:54.930 ⇒ 00:20:06.429 Samuel Roberts: like, are there things that have better APIs that we can tap into and build some scripts that could do something, or something that could just read and write a Markdown file and display it as a Gantt?

219 00:20:06.590 ⇒ 00:20:09.620 Samuel Roberts: you know, obviously, like, I don’t want to get… make it too…

220 00:20:10.290 ⇒ 00:20:13.599 Samuel Roberts: technical to have to build Gantt charts, but…

221 00:20:14.230 ⇒ 00:20:19.810 Samuel Roberts: you know, the more that is, like, a developer-focused thing, the more the AI could do for people as well, if that makes sense.

222 00:20:20.310 ⇒ 00:20:24.010 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, 100%. I don’t know why it’s not letting me edit this.

223 00:20:24.870 ⇒ 00:20:26.400 Pranav Narahari: I’m just gonna delete it.

224 00:20:41.240 ⇒ 00:20:46.620 Pranav Narahari: And then, at the end of this, I’m thinking we make a milestone called POC completed.

225 00:20:46.620 ⇒ 00:20:47.260 Samuel Roberts: Yes.

226 00:20:47.400 ⇒ 00:20:47.980 Samuel Roberts: Word.

227 00:20:51.420 ⇒ 00:20:52.460 Pranav Narahari: Alright.

228 00:20:54.330 ⇒ 00:20:58.430 Pranav Narahari: Okay… How do I delete this?

229 00:21:03.040 ⇒ 00:21:05.240 Pranav Narahari: Okay, I will figure out how to delete this.

230 00:21:05.510 ⇒ 00:21:07.470 Pranav Narahari: cohort A thing later.

231 00:21:08.110 ⇒ 00:21:08.680 Pranav Narahari: Oh my god.

232 00:21:08.680 ⇒ 00:21:14.569 Samuel Roberts: Oh, actually, while we’re on here, did you accept that, invitation?

233 00:21:14.730 ⇒ 00:21:18.739 Samuel Roberts: from… really low for the Facebook pages thing.

234 00:21:19.040 ⇒ 00:21:20.350 Samuel Roberts: The business page?

235 00:21:22.580 ⇒ 00:21:26.420 Pranav Narahari: No, that’s not ringing a bell.

236 00:21:26.420 ⇒ 00:21:36.870 Samuel Roberts: Okay, because when I found it… when I found the email, it had been read already, and I haven’t been in there, so I wasn’t sure if you had seen it. And then when I just tried to do it, it says it’ll expire on the 8th, but I got a bad…

237 00:21:37.200 ⇒ 00:21:40.540 Samuel Roberts: Like, so I might just have to do it again. I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t already set up somewhere.

238 00:21:41.090 ⇒ 00:21:45.210 Pranav Narahari: Oh, okay, so… Yeah, no, no, I don’t think I… did, okay.

239 00:21:45.810 ⇒ 00:21:49.650 Pranav Narahari: Oh, the Facebook Business Manager? I’m seeing that in,

240 00:21:49.920 ⇒ 00:21:53.129 Pranav Narahari: It looks like UTAM… oh, actually, no, you guys were already discussing this. Yeah, okay.

241 00:21:53.130 ⇒ 00:22:01.480 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s a whole thing, but I just… I was just curious, while I had you right now, as I was staring at the thing behind the video. Yeah. No worries, I’ll figure it out later.

242 00:22:01.480 ⇒ 00:22:02.940 Pranav Narahari: Okay, cool, cool.

243 00:22:03.360 ⇒ 00:22:05.510 Pranav Narahari: Alright,

244 00:22:06.720 ⇒ 00:22:12.820 Pranav Narahari: Let’s see, so these kind of all need to be done in sequence, is how I see it. They can’t really be done in parallel.

245 00:22:13.560 ⇒ 00:22:19.809 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, we need the data to do the cohort analysis and the backtesting, and yeah, yeah, I think so.

246 00:22:20.060 ⇒ 00:22:21.070 Pranav Narahari: Right, okay.

247 00:22:21.310 ⇒ 00:22:28.430 Pranav Narahari: And so… when would we start this? So, this kind of has us…

248 00:22:30.300 ⇒ 00:22:36.770 Samuel Roberts: Well, we’re aiming for, like, end of the week for everything else, probably a little bit into next week, based on…

249 00:22:37.590 ⇒ 00:22:46.600 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, based on the meeting that we had yesterday, it sounded like we want to wrap things up by end of next week. Yeah, I know in the channel, they said, like.

250 00:22:46.600 ⇒ 00:22:47.160 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

251 00:22:47.160 ⇒ 00:22:55.329 Pranav Narahari: where are we on for things for this week, but I think based on the, like, the status of that meeting from yesterday, like, end of next week.

252 00:22:55.600 ⇒ 00:22:56.290 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

253 00:22:56.290 ⇒ 00:23:00.349 Pranav Narahari: So, Phase 2, I guess, yeah, let’s start it.

254 00:23:00.350 ⇒ 00:23:07.410 Samuel Roberts: We could start it, but the other thing, if you remember, I was… I mentioned that, like, some of the data ingestion stuff could be happening in parallel, potentially, if someone else, you know.

255 00:23:07.950 ⇒ 00:23:08.970 Pranav Narahari: True, yeah.

256 00:23:08.970 ⇒ 00:23:12.749 Samuel Roberts: I… and I know he was talking about Casey joining,

257 00:23:13.950 ⇒ 00:23:21.210 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, so I think what, Utam wants to see is just, like, based on 30 hours of dev time for me per week, like.

258 00:23:21.210 ⇒ 00:23:25.009 Samuel Roberts: Yeah. Yeah, okay, in that case, I would definitely start, yeah, on the 19th.

259 00:23:27.620 ⇒ 00:23:32.059 Pranav Narahari: Okay, so this is gonna look really weird, because it’s literally just gonna be, like, one dot for this.

260 00:23:33.220 ⇒ 00:23:33.950 Clarence Stone: That’s fine.

261 00:23:34.180 ⇒ 00:23:34.530 Pranav Narahari: Okay.

262 00:23:34.530 ⇒ 00:23:35.950 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, it’s a day, yeah.

263 00:23:36.520 ⇒ 00:23:37.060 Pranav Narahari: Cool, cool.

264 00:23:37.060 ⇒ 00:23:42.020 Clarence Stone: So guys, what happened for the week before this?

265 00:23:43.660 ⇒ 00:23:47.580 Samuel Roberts: So that’s what we were just talking about. So this is… the goal here was end of.

266 00:23:47.580 ⇒ 00:23:48.040 Clarence Stone: this week.

267 00:23:48.300 ⇒ 00:23:54.340 Samuel Roberts: And we had a call with them yesterday, and kind of said, like, it’ll bleed in a little bit to the next week.

268 00:23:54.550 ⇒ 00:23:58.850 Pranav Narahari: And also, goal, like, it wasn’t… it was kind of just, like…

269 00:23:59.560 ⇒ 00:24:09.929 Pranav Narahari: they kind of wanted us to, like, hop in immediately and do, like, some POC stuff, and then we never really got to do, like, a full, like, estimate and, like, roadmap, like how we’re doing right now for.

270 00:24:09.930 ⇒ 00:24:11.689 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, Phase 1 was a little…

271 00:24:11.690 ⇒ 00:24:12.570 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

272 00:24:12.810 ⇒ 00:24:14.720 Samuel Roberts: Rushed in planning.

273 00:24:14.910 ⇒ 00:24:19.539 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, and I think it worked out well, I think we probably got to, like, where we need to get faster.

274 00:24:19.540 ⇒ 00:24:20.779 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah.

275 00:24:20.780 ⇒ 00:24:23.199 Pranav Narahari: It was just, like, kind of all over the place.

276 00:24:23.200 ⇒ 00:24:25.810 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, it was not… yes, yes, that’s true.

277 00:24:26.040 ⇒ 00:24:26.730 Clarence Stone: So.

278 00:24:26.730 ⇒ 00:24:27.459 Samuel Roberts: Kill it a little bit.

279 00:24:27.460 ⇒ 00:24:32.889 Clarence Stone: Like, wait, I’m sorry, I, I, let me add something, like, 12th to the 17th,

280 00:24:33.170 ⇒ 00:24:35.520 Samuel Roberts: We were gonna probably be readjusting…

281 00:24:35.720 ⇒ 00:24:36.849 Clarence Stone: Oh, you’re gonna readjust the top.

282 00:24:37.140 ⇒ 00:24:39.400 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah, so we’re just assuming that, like.

283 00:24:39.720 ⇒ 00:24:40.260 Clarence Stone: Like.

284 00:24:40.260 ⇒ 00:24:40.630 Samuel Roberts: One is.

285 00:24:40.630 ⇒ 00:24:56.149 Clarence Stone: Your problems don’t have to be, like, perfect, right? And what I’ve heard for those things up top there is that they’re all… it seems pretty clear that they’re all kind of assigned to slightly different people, and they all can happen in parallel.

286 00:24:56.680 ⇒ 00:24:57.240 Clarence Stone: Right.

287 00:24:57.240 ⇒ 00:24:59.190 Samuel Roberts: These ones here? Or, sorry, these ones here?

288 00:24:59.190 ⇒ 00:25:01.290 Pranav Narahari: True, they all can be done in parallel, yeah.

289 00:25:01.290 ⇒ 00:25:04.149 Clarence Stone: So, stretch it all the way out to the 17th, then.

290 00:25:04.150 ⇒ 00:25:06.969 Samuel Roberts: That’s, yeah, exactly what we… yeah, that’s all I was like, I can just do that.

291 00:25:06.970 ⇒ 00:25:07.370 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

292 00:25:07.370 ⇒ 00:25:10.560 Samuel Roberts: That’s why I was just saying, just start the next one on the 19th, and we can…

293 00:25:11.130 ⇒ 00:25:13.840 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, so I guess to that point, too, like…

294 00:25:14.260 ⇒ 00:25:19.470 Pranav Narahari: I guess Shopify data ingestion needs to be done first, so it can’t really be stretched all the way,

295 00:25:19.770 ⇒ 00:25:24.570 Pranav Narahari: But what we could do is for subscription brand handling, like…

296 00:25:25.160 ⇒ 00:25:28.230 Pranav Narahari: That can be started from here.

297 00:25:28.370 ⇒ 00:25:33.390 Pranav Narahari: like, you can kind of do that in parallel. We can pull in the data from… for subscriptions versus just, like, one-off.

298 00:25:33.780 ⇒ 00:25:41.809 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I mean, that’s… it’s definitely related to the subscription… or the Shopify data ingestion, because it will be another data ingestion, so yeah, I see what you’re saying.

299 00:25:41.970 ⇒ 00:25:42.670 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

300 00:25:43.400 ⇒ 00:25:45.709 Pranav Narahari: Okay, cool. And then…

301 00:25:46.470 ⇒ 00:25:47.260 Samuel Roberts: Excuse me.

302 00:25:48.450 ⇒ 00:25:53.009 Pranav Narahari: Let’s see… analysis script… About 2 days…

303 00:25:53.290 ⇒ 00:25:58.419 Pranav Narahari: And then backtesting validation… yeah, so this… This looks right to me.

304 00:25:59.650 ⇒ 00:26:03.089 Samuel Roberts: Okay, so we’re saying, like, a week for all that at the…

305 00:26:03.320 ⇒ 00:26:09.020 Samuel Roberts: Well, okay, here’s a good question. So we have a range for all of these, and we’re putting those, what, the low end, I guess?

306 00:26:09.410 ⇒ 00:26:18.830 Pranav Narahari: Oh, I guess you’re right. No, no, no, I, I didn’t do this correctly. So, yeah, this… this is supposed to be based off of 30 hours.

307 00:26:18.830 ⇒ 00:26:19.600 Samuel Roberts: Right.

308 00:26:19.800 ⇒ 00:26:20.430 Pranav Narahari: Yup.

309 00:26:22.230 ⇒ 00:26:23.270 Pranav Narahari: Okay.

310 00:26:23.690 ⇒ 00:26:30.540 Samuel Roberts: In which case, if we’re assuming… here’s the other… if we’re assuming you at 30 hours, or one engineer at 30 hours, can that stuff be happening in parallel?

311 00:26:32.230 ⇒ 00:26:33.889 Samuel Roberts: How does that work? You know what I mean?

312 00:26:33.890 ⇒ 00:26:45.200 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, so how… I was thinking about this, like, this whole thing, let’s… it’s not gonna take 30 hours, so it won’t actually take a week, but I can do them in parallel to, like, let’s say, for whatever reason, I’m waiting on something.

313 00:26:45.200 ⇒ 00:26:45.920 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, okay.

314 00:26:45.920 ⇒ 00:26:48.840 Pranav Narahari: script, then I can, like, start this one.

315 00:26:50.190 ⇒ 00:26:53.459 Pranav Narahari: But okay, so that’s a good point, though.

316 00:26:53.460 ⇒ 00:27:01.039 Clarence Stone: Just as a reminder, guys, like, this is planning the future of operations, right? Like, you’re planning two weeks out right now.

317 00:27:01.490 ⇒ 00:27:01.950 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

318 00:27:01.950 ⇒ 00:27:10.000 Clarence Stone: So, it does not have to be, like, exactly what day something’s gonna happen, so that’s why it’s totally okay that you structured it this way.

319 00:27:10.480 ⇒ 00:27:10.950 Samuel Roberts: Okay.

320 00:27:10.950 ⇒ 00:27:19.419 Clarence Stone: Right? Like, what you do need to know is that if all of these 4 blocks are in this week, and they’re all… I’m just gonna make this up, they’re all assigned to Pranah, for example. Yeah.

321 00:27:19.420 ⇒ 00:27:19.760 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

322 00:27:19.760 ⇒ 00:27:26.409 Clarence Stone: the total of these tickets cannot be more than 30 hours, or else, like, you pick up the phone and tell us, like, hey, like, that’s not gonna.

323 00:27:26.410 ⇒ 00:27:39.500 Pranav Narahari: Yep, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I guess what we need to do is, I think we’re just overcomplicating things. Let’s just have all of these be, like, like this. And, like, it just takes us into, like, the halfway. What do you guys think?

324 00:27:41.010 ⇒ 00:27:46.730 Clarence Stone: Yeah, that’s fine. Like, as long as, like, none of these have any sequence requirements, right?

325 00:27:46.730 ⇒ 00:27:57.330 Samuel Roberts: Well, so they do, definitely. Like, Shopify needs to happen before cohort, needs to happen before backtesting. The subscription probably is the one that could happen in parallel, like, the way we had it before, but maybe just stretched out a little bit more.

326 00:27:57.330 ⇒ 00:27:58.520 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, so maybe like this?

327 00:27:58.520 ⇒ 00:27:59.570 Clarence Stone: Yeah, there you go.

328 00:27:59.570 ⇒ 00:28:00.610 Samuel Roberts: That’s perfect.

329 00:28:01.320 ⇒ 00:28:01.910 Pranav Narahari: Cool.

330 00:28:03.350 ⇒ 00:28:09.929 Pranav Narahari: Alright, yeah, this makes sense, you know, the POC was the easiest one, so then… let’s, let’s hop back into here.

331 00:28:09.930 ⇒ 00:28:10.900 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, totally.

332 00:28:11.740 ⇒ 00:28:12.809 Samuel Roberts: Excuse me, sorry.

333 00:28:13.490 ⇒ 00:28:19.520 Clarence Stone: And… for… for the CSO’s benefit, I think,

334 00:28:19.760 ⇒ 00:28:23.389 Clarence Stone: Actually, it’s pretty clear what you guys were presenting for each week, so it’s fine.

335 00:28:24.050 ⇒ 00:28:26.909 Samuel Roberts: Oh, yeah, I see what you’re… yeah, these are, this, this,

336 00:28:27.160 ⇒ 00:28:31.370 Samuel Roberts: This phase is kind of broken up pretty well into a few different sections.

337 00:28:31.750 ⇒ 00:28:36.790 Samuel Roberts: And that one was just kind of one week, so… this one might be a little bigger, I don’t know yet.

338 00:28:36.790 ⇒ 00:28:47.590 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, this is gonna be much bigger, and there’s some stuff, Sam, that I wanted to talk to you first about, before I even put an hours range on this. Let’s talk about the ones that I already, like, put hours ranges on.

339 00:28:47.700 ⇒ 00:28:51.199 Pranav Narahari: This 12-month forecast builder UI,

340 00:28:51.460 ⇒ 00:28:59.520 Pranav Narahari: This really seems like more of, like, front-end work, whereas also, yeah, maybe just seeded with, like, historical data.

341 00:28:59.750 ⇒ 00:29:12.279 Pranav Narahari: For just, like, those inputs. So, like, the revenue target, the CAC, the ad spend, seasonality, like, maybe that can, like, they can have default values based on historical data, but I don’t even know if they’re asking for that.

342 00:29:14.800 ⇒ 00:29:19.320 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I mean, this is where we’d have to look at their, their replit.

343 00:29:19.590 ⇒ 00:29:20.870 Samuel Roberts: Kind of.

344 00:29:21.090 ⇒ 00:29:21.580 Pranav Narahari: Oh, that’s.

345 00:29:21.580 ⇒ 00:29:22.210 Samuel Roberts: thing.

346 00:29:22.390 ⇒ 00:29:23.580 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, okay.

347 00:29:23.580 ⇒ 00:29:29.540 Samuel Roberts: But yeah, I mean, I think… I think that’s definitely the front-end heavy thing.

348 00:29:29.770 ⇒ 00:29:30.370 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

349 00:29:30.590 ⇒ 00:29:35.859 Samuel Roberts: The data ingestion is definitely the… Back-end heavy thing for this.

350 00:29:36.060 ⇒ 00:29:37.110 Pranav Narahari: 100%, yeah.

351 00:29:37.110 ⇒ 00:29:45.750 Samuel Roberts: So, yeah, I think you’ve got that right there. What is the daily chasing dashboard? Oh, yeah, okay. There’s two parts to this forecasting thing.

352 00:29:46.100 ⇒ 00:29:46.800 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

353 00:29:46.980 ⇒ 00:29:47.540 Samuel Roberts: Right.

354 00:29:48.100 ⇒ 00:29:49.039 Samuel Roberts: Excuse me, sorry.

355 00:29:49.200 ⇒ 00:29:59.200 Pranav Narahari: And so, how I view this, too, is, like, I’ve broke it down so, like, this is also just, like, the front-end thing. This is gonna be pulling the data from the database, but it’s just, like, displaying it on…

356 00:29:59.340 ⇒ 00:30:01.129 Pranav Narahari: The… on the front end.

357 00:30:01.690 ⇒ 00:30:02.390 Samuel Roberts: E…

358 00:30:02.390 ⇒ 00:30:12.580 Pranav Narahari: Other deliverables are going to be actually, okay, we need to pull that data from Shopify, from all these other MCPs, and then, on some scheduled basis, bring it into our database.

359 00:30:14.210 ⇒ 00:30:19.319 Samuel Roberts: Sorry, repeat, like, why is the forecast builder…

360 00:30:22.140 ⇒ 00:30:25.590 Samuel Roberts: Oh, default values see it from historical data, so it’s just the default values for the…

361 00:30:27.450 ⇒ 00:30:28.460 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, so…

362 00:30:28.460 ⇒ 00:30:29.410 Samuel Roberts: I see what you’re saying.

363 00:30:29.410 ⇒ 00:30:33.619 Pranav Narahari: These first two deliverables are just front-end.

364 00:30:34.160 ⇒ 00:30:35.240 Samuel Roberts: Okay, right, okay, okay.

365 00:30:35.240 ⇒ 00:30:36.430 Pranav Narahari: Does that sound right?

366 00:30:36.430 ⇒ 00:30:44.019 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I was thinking that the forecast was using more of the historical data that we would need, but if we… especially if we have some of it, we can at least

367 00:30:44.320 ⇒ 00:30:45.410 Samuel Roberts: get a…

368 00:30:46.060 ⇒ 00:30:52.379 Samuel Roberts: version of that built, and then as we add more historical data, the default values could be seeded differently. But you’re right, it’s really…

369 00:30:53.000 ⇒ 00:31:01.169 Samuel Roberts: mostly just that. That being said, the, like, how it’s doing these calculations is still an open question. Are we just gonna do that in the browser?

370 00:31:01.610 ⇒ 00:31:03.650 Samuel Roberts: Do we need to offload that?

371 00:31:04.090 ⇒ 00:31:04.950 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

372 00:31:04.950 ⇒ 00:31:06.110 Samuel Roberts: But that’s…

373 00:31:07.890 ⇒ 00:31:11.460 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, okay, so maybe we need to add another…

374 00:31:13.180 ⇒ 00:31:18.680 Pranav Narahari: Like, when we… when you think of, like, the… yeah, that would not be part of the data ingestion pipeline.

375 00:31:18.910 ⇒ 00:31:21.500 Samuel Roberts: No, no, this is… yeah, I mean, I think there’s some…

376 00:31:21.880 ⇒ 00:31:28.060 Samuel Roberts: Well, actually, no, the Python data was for the cohort stuff that we have, right? That’s the only code we have.

377 00:31:31.500 ⇒ 00:31:38.759 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s just… it’s just how much is front-end versus back-end for the 12-month forecast. Like, can all those calculations happen fast enough in the browser?

378 00:31:39.150 ⇒ 00:31:43.640 Samuel Roberts: Probably. I mean, I suppose it depends on how long we’re going out for, but…

379 00:31:45.410 ⇒ 00:31:46.350 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, okay.

380 00:31:46.350 ⇒ 00:31:54.779 Samuel Roberts: If not, if not, we can, you know, make a back-end call and do the same logic. It’s not that… you know what I mean? I might be making it sound more complicated than it is, I’m just trying to think through…

381 00:31:54.930 ⇒ 00:31:57.560 Samuel Roberts: Like, maybe the range should go a little bit bigger, but…

382 00:31:58.450 ⇒ 00:32:11.659 Pranav Narahari: I’m trying to think, does one or the other, like, increase complexity a lot more? Like, doing it in the front end is probably, like, super simple. Yeah. If, like, we need to, like, set it up via, like, you know, not doing it in the front end, do you think.

383 00:32:11.830 ⇒ 00:32:14.529 Samuel Roberts: It’s a little more complicated, but it shouldn’t be…

384 00:32:16.330 ⇒ 00:32:23.899 Samuel Roberts: crazy, especially if we’re just gonna do it on the Node backend. We could use… you know, if we… if we assume the browser works.

385 00:32:25.140 ⇒ 00:32:28.189 Samuel Roberts: you know, we write that JavaScript, TypeScript, whatever.

386 00:32:28.910 ⇒ 00:32:33.080 Samuel Roberts: Moving that to the backend, I guess it’s just that, you know, the HTTP calls…

387 00:32:33.330 ⇒ 00:32:34.929 Samuel Roberts: Is really the only thing.

388 00:32:35.190 ⇒ 00:32:35.980 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

389 00:32:35.980 ⇒ 00:32:38.699 Samuel Roberts: And tweaking how we, you know.

390 00:32:39.320 ⇒ 00:32:45.670 Samuel Roberts: serialize the data, but… it’s not crazy. So maybe that’s right, Ben, I’m just… maybe I’m just thinking it through too much, but…

391 00:32:46.000 ⇒ 00:32:50.430 Pranav Narahari: And I… there was also one thing that was, I think, really helpful.

392 00:32:51.120 ⇒ 00:32:54.410 Pranav Narahari: It needs to load in less than 2 minutes, and so we have, like…

393 00:32:54.650 ⇒ 00:32:58.190 Pranav Narahari: it looks like Utam and, Bobby kind of talked about that.

394 00:32:58.480 ⇒ 00:33:00.089 Samuel Roberts: Okay, 2 minutes is good.

395 00:33:00.330 ⇒ 00:33:01.560 Pranav Narahari: Quite a lot of time.

396 00:33:01.830 ⇒ 00:33:02.610 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

397 00:33:03.900 ⇒ 00:33:07.759 Samuel Roberts: But that’s a good, good number to have, because that will help us figure out the finance fastening.

398 00:33:07.760 ⇒ 00:33:12.440 Pranav Narahari: Let me double-check that this is exactly what they meant by that 2 minutes. Let me…

399 00:33:12.750 ⇒ 00:33:14.680 Pranav Narahari: It’s on the PRD.

400 00:33:15.730 ⇒ 00:33:33.749 Clarence Stone: By the way, in the Gantt, you guys have the option to add in decision points or reading points as well, as a different shape. So, what I think I heard is that there’s going to be a couple of deliverables that need some level of conversation after Justin Pipeline’s completed, so you can just

401 00:33:33.750 ⇒ 00:33:35.739 Clarence Stone: Set up a decision point

402 00:33:35.900 ⇒ 00:33:43.620 Clarence Stone: You know, shape, and say, like, these are the things we need to discuss, and it may impact the layout or estimates of

403 00:33:43.870 ⇒ 00:33:45.630 Clarence Stone: You know, what happens after.

404 00:33:47.020 ⇒ 00:33:47.930 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha.

405 00:33:48.820 ⇒ 00:33:52.929 Pranav Narahari: Okay, yeah, so… How can I do that in here?

406 00:33:52.930 ⇒ 00:33:57.459 Clarence Stone: I think it’s ad… Add Decision or something like that?

407 00:33:58.240 ⇒ 00:34:00.700 Samuel Roberts: At… yeah, there’s…

408 00:34:03.120 ⇒ 00:34:08.459 Clarence Stone: By the way, I build everything on the table view because, like, this just eats so much space, so check that out, too.

409 00:34:08.460 ⇒ 00:34:09.800 Pranav Narahari: Oh, okay.

410 00:34:09.989 ⇒ 00:34:10.599 Clarence Stone: Yeah.

411 00:34:11.149 ⇒ 00:34:12.039 Clarence Stone: So from here…

412 00:34:12.040 ⇒ 00:34:12.630 Samuel Roberts: Nice.

413 00:34:12.630 ⇒ 00:34:19.769 Clarence Stone: Yeah, it’s a little bit easier. I’ve been poking around with it to see if I can, you know, learn it a little bit better, too. Yeah, so add task.

414 00:34:20.139 ⇒ 00:34:22.369 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, must be a something that you can…

415 00:34:24.199 ⇒ 00:34:27.029 Clarence Stone: Oh, I think you can convert them, right? Because that’s how you get…

416 00:34:27.179 ⇒ 00:34:29.020 Samuel Roberts: So yeah, just call it.

417 00:34:32.070 ⇒ 00:34:33.840 Pranav Narahari: I’m just gonna call it Decision Point for now.

418 00:34:33.840 ⇒ 00:34:37.060 Samuel Roberts: Sure, yeah, see, and then once it’s made, are you able to…

419 00:34:38.010 ⇒ 00:34:39.210 Pranav Narahari: No…

420 00:34:39.210 ⇒ 00:34:41.660 Samuel Roberts: Okay, it’s like a dependent task. There’s gotta be…

421 00:34:43.820 ⇒ 00:34:46.559 Clarence Stone: Oh, if you click on that task.

422 00:34:47.980 ⇒ 00:34:49.830 Clarence Stone: Yeah, there’s a triangle up top.

423 00:34:50.170 ⇒ 00:34:54.449 Clarence Stone: Sorry, you’re in the same… into the right spot, right? The top right, there’s a diamond.

424 00:34:55.440 ⇒ 00:34:56.809 Samuel Roberts: Oh, yeah, okay.

425 00:34:57.570 ⇒ 00:34:58.320 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

426 00:34:59.570 ⇒ 00:35:01.590 Clarence Stone: Top right, there’s a diamond.

427 00:35:01.590 ⇒ 00:35:03.439 Samuel Roberts: Convert to milestone, yeah, okay.

428 00:35:03.630 ⇒ 00:35:05.190 Pranav Narahari: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

429 00:35:05.190 ⇒ 00:35:20.599 Clarence Stone: But then that becomes a decision point that’s going to be underpinning, you know, the next set of things. So you can say within phase two, there’s a milestone, and it’s going to, you know… and, you know, Sam Pranav is also super helpful, because you can say, like.

430 00:35:20.970 ⇒ 00:35:29.110 Clarence Stone: That point is also when you have to go back in, Pranav, and redo your estimations in case anything changes after that meeting.

431 00:35:29.340 ⇒ 00:35:32.470 Samuel Roberts: Right, right. So everything after that is a little less certain.

432 00:35:32.470 ⇒ 00:35:34.689 Clarence Stone: Exactly, and that’s okay, right?

433 00:35:34.690 ⇒ 00:35:35.230 Samuel Roberts: Totally.

434 00:35:35.230 ⇒ 00:35:52.849 Clarence Stone: expressed yesterday is, like, we just want the planners to always have an answer and know what’s going on. They don’t need to have, like, this precise plan. So if you, Pranav, told me, like, hey, there’s a decision point here, and, like, the rest of the Gantt is just an estimate that’s gonna get re-evaluated at this point.

435 00:35:53.280 ⇒ 00:35:55.919 Clarence Stone: I would be like, okay, makes sense.

436 00:35:58.380 ⇒ 00:35:59.050 Pranav Narahari: Cool.

437 00:35:59.630 ⇒ 00:36:04.889 Pranav Narahari: Okay, this makes sense to me, and I think this decision point can be, like… you know.

438 00:36:05.330 ⇒ 00:36:07.060 Pranav Narahari: POC complete.

439 00:36:07.060 ⇒ 00:36:12.559 Clarence Stone: you guys were discussing, like, I, you know, about, like, what happens in the front end, how to, like.

440 00:36:12.560 ⇒ 00:36:12.920 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

441 00:36:12.920 ⇒ 00:36:17.420 Clarence Stone: All those questions in that little diamond description, and just say, like, this is why we need.

442 00:36:18.060 ⇒ 00:36:18.860 Samuel Roberts: Sure.

443 00:36:19.520 ⇒ 00:36:20.270 Samuel Roberts: That’s fine.

444 00:36:21.990 ⇒ 00:36:22.600 Pranav Narahari: Cool.

445 00:36:23.750 ⇒ 00:36:33.420 Clarence Stone: Yeah, and the best part, though, is, like, instead of, like, trying to ideate on the call and try to get everything out, like, just remember, both of you, right, that that diamond exists, and there’s

446 00:36:33.830 ⇒ 00:36:39.600 Clarence Stone: that need to be talked about on the milestone, just go drop it in there, because none of that’s really going to matter until you start working on this.

447 00:36:39.600 ⇒ 00:36:40.430 Samuel Roberts: Right.

448 00:36:40.430 ⇒ 00:36:41.100 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

449 00:36:44.270 ⇒ 00:36:55.350 Pranav Narahari: Okay, awesome. Data ingestion pipeline… Automated pulls from Shopify…

450 00:36:55.900 ⇒ 00:37:02.729 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, what were you thinking about, like, for the… like, the architecture for this third deliverable, Sam?

451 00:37:03.230 ⇒ 00:37:05.959 Samuel Roberts: They’re a dating existing pipeline data from Shopify.

452 00:37:06.970 ⇒ 00:37:08.839 Pranav Narahari: Were you thinking, like, cron jobs?

453 00:37:10.400 ⇒ 00:37:14.470 Samuel Roberts: This is where I was talking on the meeting the other day about where we gotta pull in some data people.

454 00:37:15.230 ⇒ 00:37:16.200 Samuel Roberts: Okay.

455 00:37:16.490 ⇒ 00:37:20.489 Pranav Narahari: So this, like, we should, like, offload to the data team, so then should I talk to them?

456 00:37:23.060 ⇒ 00:37:28.589 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I don’t know about offload completely, but definitely getting their advice,

457 00:37:29.810 ⇒ 00:37:36.619 Samuel Roberts: an input, like, from Awash, or, you know, if he can point you to the right person, because they’ve done a lot of this, and I have not as much.

458 00:37:37.080 ⇒ 00:37:37.690 Pranav Narahari: Okay.

459 00:37:37.870 ⇒ 00:37:38.570 Pranav Narahari: Cool.

460 00:37:38.780 ⇒ 00:37:41.359 Pranav Narahari: I will, I will, I’ll figure that out then.

461 00:37:41.550 ⇒ 00:37:43.040 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, and I mean, I think…

462 00:37:44.100 ⇒ 00:37:47.570 Samuel Roberts: with, which I’m mentioning, like, Casey and Merstappa joining.

463 00:37:47.710 ⇒ 00:37:50.480 Samuel Roberts: Like, they may have a little more experience doing some of that.

464 00:37:50.870 ⇒ 00:37:54.039 Samuel Roberts: but, I think,

465 00:37:54.650 ⇒ 00:38:00.829 Samuel Roberts: When it comes down to it, it’s like, message away and explain what we’re trying to do, and he can maybe give you some advice.

466 00:38:01.150 ⇒ 00:38:09.269 Samuel Roberts: If it is just Shopify, I think Utam was making this point, too, that we might not need a complicated, like, ETL thing, necessarily.

467 00:38:09.650 ⇒ 00:38:12.740 Samuel Roberts: Pending decision… yeah, there is pending decision at the bottom, right?

468 00:38:14.020 ⇒ 00:38:23.850 Samuel Roberts: Like, you know, ETL is great when you have, like, tons of disparate data sources, and you need to pull them all into one thing, and do them, like, dbt models and stuff.

469 00:38:24.080 ⇒ 00:38:28.990 Samuel Roberts: But if it’s just Shopify, and it’s gonna be very similar to how their API returns.

470 00:38:29.270 ⇒ 00:38:33.480 Samuel Roberts: Then maybe it’s, yeah, like a cron job or something, and it just fetches it, puts it in.

471 00:38:34.170 ⇒ 00:38:34.810 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

472 00:38:35.060 ⇒ 00:38:36.000 Samuel Roberts: So I would…

473 00:38:39.360 ⇒ 00:38:41.040 Samuel Roberts: I would say…

474 00:38:41.390 ⇒ 00:38:47.870 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, maybe message a ways to get his input, keeping in mind that, like, he’s, like.

475 00:38:48.140 ⇒ 00:38:57.689 Samuel Roberts: he might point you towards, like, the ETL stuff, which, again, might be overkill, but if… he might also just be like, oh yeah, that’s easy, and Shopify to do it that way without it.

476 00:38:59.800 ⇒ 00:39:07.549 Pranav Narahari: And so, yeah, are we just pulling data from Shopify, or… in the PRD, it mentioned, like, pulling from MetaGoogle Klaviyo as well.

477 00:39:07.550 ⇒ 00:39:11.359 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, that’s wild, that’s why… I’m not sure if the MCPs are the way to do that, though.

478 00:39:11.360 ⇒ 00:39:12.719 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I don’t think so either.

479 00:39:12.720 ⇒ 00:39:15.460 Samuel Roberts: So that’s why I was a little confused by that here.

480 00:39:15.690 ⇒ 00:39:20.800 Samuel Roberts: Or the idea here is that the Shopify data is getting warehoused.

481 00:39:21.470 ⇒ 00:39:24.129 Samuel Roberts: And this is just… we’ll fetch it as needed.

482 00:39:26.630 ⇒ 00:39:27.390 Pranav Narahari: Hmm.

483 00:39:28.050 ⇒ 00:39:29.719 Clarence Stone: Hey, who built this?

484 00:39:30.570 ⇒ 00:39:36.019 Pranav Narahari: I built this based on the descriptions in the PRD that Uten built, so I can…

485 00:39:36.020 ⇒ 00:39:43.159 Clarence Stone: Same with a PRD, and you have questions, this is based on your current sprint, or your next sprint?

486 00:39:43.310 ⇒ 00:39:45.049 Samuel Roberts: No, this is the next… the next phase, yeah.

487 00:39:45.050 ⇒ 00:39:49.059 Clarence Stone: Oh, this is Phase 2. Okay, so, like, highly recommend, as…

488 00:39:49.060 ⇒ 00:39:49.420 Samuel Roberts: Good point.

489 00:39:49.420 ⇒ 00:39:56.580 Clarence Stone: over the bridge to Phase 2, right, that you just do an entire milestone, drop in all the uncertainty.

490 00:39:56.580 ⇒ 00:39:57.120 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

491 00:39:57.280 ⇒ 00:40:02.379 Clarence Stone: Right. And then start trying to sequence best you can right now with what you know.

492 00:40:02.740 ⇒ 00:40:12.059 Samuel Roberts: The other… the other thing to add is that U-Han might have more insight into this, and just be like, yeah, no, don’t bother with the ETL, do the Shopify, he might understand this better, but he’s definitely worth talking to.

493 00:40:12.060 ⇒ 00:40:22.800 Clarence Stone: That’s what I would do, Sam. Like, I would just say, like, hey, team has a bunch of, like, finer questions on exactly what each of these things mean, right? Here’s the questions that we have, you can just ping it to him, and…

494 00:40:22.800 ⇒ 00:40:23.529 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, exactly.

495 00:40:23.530 ⇒ 00:40:40.320 Clarence Stone: Just be like, if you don’t know it yet, that’s fine, we’ve already planned a meeting right before we start this phase. So we’re gonna force you to answer it then. And that’s gonna be the best part, when UTOM says, like, why isn’t this planned out? You can say, we asked you the questions, and we also planned a meeting to get this finished before we…

496 00:40:40.320 ⇒ 00:40:48.920 Samuel Roberts: Right, right, right. Yeah, I mean, we still need to get some basic ranges in here, though, so… but, like, that’s just… the uncertainty will just make the ranges, you know.

497 00:40:49.240 ⇒ 00:40:53.659 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, a little wider. The idea is that we actually want to send this out today to the client.

498 00:40:56.770 ⇒ 00:41:01.740 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I was saying, like, so, like, if we know that we have questions around this.

499 00:41:02.390 ⇒ 00:41:07.269 Samuel Roberts: Like, 16 to 24… It’s bigger than the 12… yeah, I mean…

500 00:41:08.660 ⇒ 00:41:10.030 Samuel Roberts: Maybe a li- I don’t know.

501 00:41:10.690 ⇒ 00:41:14.579 Samuel Roberts: We could maybe bump that just because of the question marks there.

502 00:41:14.880 ⇒ 00:41:18.779 Clarence Stone: So, can I share real quick, guys? Yeah, that’d be great.

503 00:41:19.750 ⇒ 00:41:22.800 Clarence Stone: I… I need your permission, it says.

504 00:41:22.800 ⇒ 00:41:25.329 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, I think you gotta… yeah, there you go.

505 00:41:25.550 ⇒ 00:41:43.600 Clarence Stone: Just real quick, here’s a Instagant that I’m just playing with, with, like, all the heavy features that… that might be helpful. Oh, nice. So, you can color code these Gants. So, if, let’s just say, you know, like, Sam, you’re gonna be green, right,

506 00:41:44.410 ⇒ 00:41:45.309 Samuel Roberts: Mmm, okay.

507 00:41:45.310 ⇒ 00:41:53.129 Clarence Stone: and then, you know, someone else gets purple. You know, even if all of these were stacked, I would say, oh, it’s going to three different people, so I’m not.

508 00:41:53.130 ⇒ 00:41:54.230 Samuel Roberts: Right, right.

509 00:41:54.230 ⇒ 00:42:05.339 Clarence Stone: Right? And then here is, like, this whole entire planning phase for that block, or that section. You can say, this is the section in which we’re conducting Phase 2.

510 00:42:06.050 ⇒ 00:42:10.690 Clarence Stone: And in Phase 2, these are the things that we need to do, right?

511 00:42:11.550 ⇒ 00:42:18.640 Clarence Stone: But it doesn’t matter if the sequence of what happens inside of this phase changes. Like, if I move this here.

512 00:42:18.640 ⇒ 00:42:20.140 Samuel Roberts: It’s not a big… Right, right.

513 00:42:20.140 ⇒ 00:42:23.299 Clarence Stone: Right? Or if I stretch this, you know, down.

514 00:42:23.300 ⇒ 00:42:23.650 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

515 00:42:23.650 ⇒ 00:42:29.740 Clarence Stone: outside of these boundaries, it becomes a problem, because you’re essentially breaking a client promise, right? Like, this is saying.

516 00:42:29.740 ⇒ 00:42:30.070 Samuel Roberts: Yep.

517 00:42:30.070 ⇒ 00:42:36.170 Clarence Stone: finish, prototyping by the 15th. It doesn’t matter what, you know, goes into.

518 00:42:36.170 ⇒ 00:42:37.410 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah, okay.

519 00:42:37.410 ⇒ 00:42:38.080 Clarence Stone: Right.

520 00:42:39.320 ⇒ 00:42:56.079 Clarence Stone: So you have, like, all the latitude within that to say, like, these are the things that, you know, maybe sketching is going to take us the whole amount of time, documentation’s gonna be half of that time, right? But, like, if any of this moves around, it’s fine as long as it stays within this, you know, overall

521 00:42:56.300 ⇒ 00:43:01.039 Clarence Stone: timeline. So if we promise Phase 2 by the end of, you know, a certain date.

522 00:43:01.170 ⇒ 00:43:03.640 Clarence Stone: Just make sure everything that needs to be done is in there.

523 00:43:04.510 ⇒ 00:43:05.080 Pranav Narahari: Yup.

524 00:43:05.780 ⇒ 00:43:19.710 Clarence Stone: Right? Because then you can say, hey, we’re going to schedule a meeting to prep for that, and then finalize the sequence. Because, like, really, the client’s gonna actually just want this view of the Gantt. Everything else might be too complicated for them. They’re rarely ever going…

525 00:43:19.710 ⇒ 00:43:20.599 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, true.

526 00:43:20.600 ⇒ 00:43:25.780 Clarence Stone: look at the item. So, like, this is… this is sort of closer to what I would give to a client.

527 00:43:27.170 ⇒ 00:43:27.830 Samuel Roberts: Right.

528 00:43:28.140 ⇒ 00:43:34.449 Clarence Stone: Right? Like, this is… we’re gonna start with information, planning, mapping, prototyping, getting your feedback, right?

529 00:43:34.900 ⇒ 00:43:41.170 Clarence Stone: This is… this is all the client really needs to see. This fuller view is, like, stuff that helps us.

530 00:43:45.860 ⇒ 00:43:47.909 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I hope that helps, like, there’.

531 00:43:47.910 ⇒ 00:43:48.420 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

532 00:43:48.420 ⇒ 00:43:53.179 Clarence Stone: things here, like… but I just want to let you guys know, like, you don’t have to know everything, you know?

533 00:43:53.180 ⇒ 00:43:53.580 Samuel Roberts: Right.

534 00:43:53.580 ⇒ 00:43:58.960 Clarence Stone: plan everything, you just have to know what needs to happen in each phase, right? If prototyping’s gonna…

535 00:43:59.230 ⇒ 00:44:01.799 Clarence Stone: the X, Y, and Z things, just make sure it’s all in there.

536 00:44:02.530 ⇒ 00:44:03.230 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

537 00:44:03.620 ⇒ 00:44:23.429 Clarence Stone: And the big call-out, though, is, like, if, you know, UTom says, like, hey, we have to finish Phase 2 by this date, and you guys look at everything that goes into that phase, and you go, there’s just no way in heck we can do it. Like, that’s the whole point of this exercise. Maybe I realize, hey, we just need more time for sketching in this prototyping phase. I might pick up the phone and say, I need help.

538 00:44:24.860 ⇒ 00:44:25.530 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

539 00:44:25.690 ⇒ 00:44:31.060 Pranav Narahari: So, I guess to that point, like, so, UTAM hasn’t really said anything for Phase 2, like, how long it should take.

540 00:44:32.520 ⇒ 00:44:34.809 Samuel Roberts: So it’s kind of what we’re doing today is helping him get that.

541 00:44:34.970 ⇒ 00:44:52.430 Clarence Stone: Yeah, now you guys have one of two options. You can ask him, like, hey, when should we be done with Phase 2? And you might not get an answer you like, and you’re gonna have to cram all the things into Phase 2, or you can say, realistically, based on everything that’s going in here, and based on what we know, this is how long Phase 2 will take us.

542 00:44:53.190 ⇒ 00:44:57.090 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, so, in the client meeting yesterday,

543 00:44:57.200 ⇒ 00:45:14.879 Pranav Narahari: And I want to make sure I didn’t get this wrong, so it was either Phase 2 or Phase 2 and Phase 3 that they said by the end of Q2 latest. And they said, like, you know, if we ramp things up, maybe we can get something closer to, like, Q1. And so that’s the only… do you remember that?

544 00:45:14.880 ⇒ 00:45:15.439 Clarence Stone: So much time.

545 00:45:15.440 ⇒ 00:45:22.189 Samuel Roberts: Well, yeah, and what Utam mentioned today was that he wants to give them 3 different… possibilities, like… Yeah.

546 00:45:22.620 ⇒ 00:45:25.610 Samuel Roberts: You know, normal, fast, faster kind of thing.

547 00:45:25.780 ⇒ 00:45:37.379 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, so, like, basically getting Phase 2 and Phase 3 done by end of Q2 with, like, just kind of based on how things are currently, right? Which is just, let’s just say, 30 hours per week.

548 00:45:37.530 ⇒ 00:45:55.249 Pranav Narahari: Maybe that’s kind of what we can think of, like, in the Gantt, like, that gray bar going up until. And then we can figure out how does every… does everything… all these tasks that we’ve set up here, will they be able to get done by Q2? I think definitely so.

549 00:45:55.920 ⇒ 00:45:59.450 Pranav Narahari: But I wonder if we’re just getting a little bit too granular here with, like.

550 00:45:59.450 ⇒ 00:46:15.759 Clarence Stone: Yeah, so my recommendation, Pranav, is, like, you guys do exactly what you’re doing right now. You go, hey, like, in prototyping, these are all the things that we gotta do, right? And therefore, prototyping has to be, like, 2 weeks based on the resourcing and hours you have today.

551 00:46:15.840 ⇒ 00:46:26.129 Clarence Stone: Right, right. Finish the whole plan with that perspective, and then come back into it, right, and then say, maybe I don’t have 2 weeks anymore.

552 00:46:26.130 ⇒ 00:46:26.620 Samuel Roberts: Yeah.

553 00:46:26.620 ⇒ 00:46:36.540 Clarence Stone: Right, but I’m gonna lift my hour limitations and say, like, I have no limits on hours. If I crunch this down to one week, how many hours do I end up needing?

554 00:46:36.800 ⇒ 00:46:41.360 Samuel Roberts: Yeah. Right. That’s also where the, like, dependencies will make sense, like, what can be…

555 00:46:41.590 ⇒ 00:46:48.039 Clarence Stone: paralleled in what can be… what can’t be. Yeah, exactly, because, like, now that’s gonna really matter when you try to crunch the timeline down.

556 00:46:48.040 ⇒ 00:46:49.740 Samuel Roberts: Exactly, exactly.

557 00:46:49.740 ⇒ 00:46:52.409 Clarence Stone: So, like, some things you probably can’t even scrunch down.

558 00:46:53.050 ⇒ 00:46:53.580 Pranav Narahari: Yep.

559 00:46:54.080 ⇒ 00:47:03.369 Clarence Stone: Right, and that’s the analysis Utam is looking for, and, you know, I think you guys know exactly what’s gonna happen with that, like, he’s just gonna raise fees if they want it done faster.

560 00:47:03.370 ⇒ 00:47:05.580 Samuel Roberts: Exactly, yeah, that’s… yeah, yeah.

561 00:47:06.630 ⇒ 00:47:11.030 Clarence Stone: I hope that was helpful. You guys can… I don’t want to keep eating up your meeting time, go for it.

562 00:47:11.030 ⇒ 00:47:13.960 Samuel Roberts: No, no, this has been… yeah, this is super awful.

563 00:47:15.820 ⇒ 00:47:27.060 Pranav Narahari: So, where should we continue back on? Just, like, going to MVP, hours ranges? Like, I wonder, Sam, should we just throw some hour ranges that we know, like, make sense? Yeah.

564 00:47:27.060 ⇒ 00:47:30.920 Samuel Roberts: I would finish… let’s do that together, at least, because you can probably get the Gantt.

565 00:47:31.480 ⇒ 00:47:36.469 Pranav Narahari: together once we have that, so, like, while we have the time together, do that. Exactly, exactly.

566 00:47:36.470 ⇒ 00:47:37.790 Samuel Roberts: The hours, yeah.

567 00:47:38.900 ⇒ 00:47:46.730 Pranav Narahari: Oh, cool. Okay, so… for these ones that are, you know, TBD, like the data warehouse setup,

568 00:47:46.890 ⇒ 00:47:49.360 Pranav Narahari: ETL connector setup, like…

569 00:47:50.040 ⇒ 00:47:54.980 Pranav Narahari: you know, like, I have to talk to, like, Oish about that, for sure. Should we…

570 00:47:55.120 ⇒ 00:48:02.900 Pranav Narahari: should I just, like, have a conversation with him to, like, get those hour ranges, or do you think you can have, like, a… you have, like, a pretty good gauge of, like, what that range would be?

571 00:48:03.370 ⇒ 00:48:10.100 Samuel Roberts: Trying to think. I did a little bit of this stuff on Honey Stinger.

572 00:48:11.090 ⇒ 00:48:16.290 Samuel Roberts: Like, assuming access and everything is fine. It’s not…

573 00:48:16.870 ⇒ 00:48:25.090 Samuel Roberts: Crazy, and we only have really… Shopify, Meta, Google, Klaviyo…

574 00:48:27.650 ⇒ 00:48:30.060 Samuel Roberts: I’m trying to think how long that took me before…

575 00:48:34.670 ⇒ 00:48:39.849 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, a waste might be a better, a better… Okay. A better person here.

576 00:48:40.500 ⇒ 00:48:42.200 Pranav Narahari: Sounds good.

577 00:48:42.640 ⇒ 00:48:44.350 Samuel Roberts: What were the other ones that were TBD, though?

578 00:48:44.860 ⇒ 00:48:49.579 Pranav Narahari: So, then… The cohort model integration, so… basically, yeah.

579 00:48:49.890 ⇒ 00:48:52.699 Samuel Roberts: Oh, that’s the… the… the Python code?

580 00:48:52.700 ⇒ 00:48:53.380 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

581 00:48:56.730 ⇒ 00:48:59.870 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, we probably want to make that at least, like.

582 00:49:02.880 ⇒ 00:49:10.290 Samuel Roberts: Well, I don’t know, I was gonna say a day or two up to, like, a few days, because I don’t… it’s a little bit of uncertainty about how that works, you know?

583 00:49:10.440 ⇒ 00:49:12.550 Samuel Roberts: But after the POC, we’ll have more certainty.

584 00:49:14.070 ⇒ 00:49:14.860 Pranav Narahari: Okay.

585 00:49:15.480 ⇒ 00:49:21.280 Pranav Narahari: Okay, yeah, yeah, so… For now, let’s just put, like, a wider range then, right?

586 00:49:21.280 ⇒ 00:49:22.030 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, yeah.

587 00:49:22.420 ⇒ 00:49:25.009 Pranav Narahari: So then, like, 2 to 4 days?

588 00:49:26.820 ⇒ 00:49:28.099 Pranav Narahari: Or is that too big?

589 00:49:28.420 ⇒ 00:49:29.330 Pranav Narahari: I don’t know.

590 00:49:29.690 ⇒ 00:49:30.930 Samuel Roberts: No, that sounds fine, that sounds fine.

591 00:49:30.930 ⇒ 00:49:31.850 Pranav Narahari: Two to four days? Okay.

592 00:49:31.850 ⇒ 00:49:33.730 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, to just maybe, you know…

593 00:49:33.990 ⇒ 00:49:39.190 Samuel Roberts: Keep in mind that that hopefully will shrink up as we do the POC and understand how that Python code works.

594 00:49:39.840 ⇒ 00:49:44.509 Pranav Narahari: Yeah. So then should we say 1 to 4, just to, like, show that, okay, it’s a big range, but…

595 00:49:45.020 ⇒ 00:49:47.099 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, that’s fine too. That’s fine too.

596 00:49:47.100 ⇒ 00:49:47.830 Pranav Narahari: Is that more.

597 00:49:47.830 ⇒ 00:49:53.870 Samuel Roberts: I think, yeah, in the best-case scenario, it’s… it’s… it’s a… it’s a day. You know.

598 00:49:54.710 ⇒ 00:49:55.690 Samuel Roberts: So that’s fine.

599 00:49:56.900 ⇒ 00:49:59.450 Samuel Roberts: Okay. Like, I just don’t know, like…

600 00:49:59.840 ⇒ 00:50:05.890 Samuel Roberts: Yeah, you know what I mean, like, the Python code might be like, oh, perfect, it just… it just maps right to what we need, or it doesn’t, you know?

601 00:50:06.050 ⇒ 00:50:06.980 Pranav Narahari: Yeah.

602 00:50:06.980 ⇒ 00:50:10.400 Samuel Roberts: Logic is there, but the… Plugs. Okay.

603 00:50:10.400 ⇒ 00:50:11.120 Pranav Narahari: Right.

604 00:50:11.230 ⇒ 00:50:15.930 Pranav Narahari: Okay, so let’s move down to production release.

605 00:50:16.410 ⇒ 00:50:22.270 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, so also another, like, this is just for 3 pilot brands, so…

606 00:50:22.790 ⇒ 00:50:30.789 Pranav Narahari: We don’t really need to support all their brands yet, we’re just going to get a few brands, one of them with, like, more subscriptions, one of them which is, like, one-time purchase.

607 00:50:30.790 ⇒ 00:50:31.840 Samuel Roberts: Yes, okay.

608 00:50:32.920 ⇒ 00:50:45.689 Pranav Narahari: But, you know, we’re going to be able to, like, really go granular on these specific brands. And then V1 is like, okay, they have 75… 70 to 75 brands, we should be able to support all of them.

609 00:50:45.690 ⇒ 00:50:46.460 Samuel Roberts: Hmm.

610 00:50:46.460 ⇒ 00:50:52.220 Pranav Narahari: And then they also want, like, additional, like, UI things. So, like, this multi-brand dashboard,

611 00:50:52.910 ⇒ 00:51:10.959 Pranav Narahari: I haven’t gotten to look at all this yet, either, so, you know, maybe it makes sense, you know, since we’re at the end of the meeting too, I’ll set up maybe another meeting after I go through this, and then also Phase 3. Also talk to Awash as well about, like, some of the more data engineering-focused stuff.

612 00:51:11.140 ⇒ 00:51:12.480 Pranav Narahari: And then…

613 00:51:12.900 ⇒ 00:51:18.850 Pranav Narahari: Yeah. By end of day, my plan is to, like, get this off to Utam, so he can, like, send this to the client.

614 00:51:19.320 ⇒ 00:51:23.020 Pranav Narahari: So, yeah, just expect I’ll Slack you a little bit later.

615 00:51:23.420 ⇒ 00:51:27.119 Samuel Roberts: Okay, totally, yeah, that’s fine. I… I got something at… what are we at? We’re at?

616 00:51:27.250 ⇒ 00:51:35.210 Samuel Roberts: almost at 2 Eastern, I got something at 2.30 and something at 3.30. It’s half an hour, so… any time on the calendar between that, or after that?

617 00:51:35.680 ⇒ 00:51:37.430 Pranav Narahari: Perfect. Awesome.

618 00:51:38.380 ⇒ 00:51:39.359 Samuel Roberts: Alright, cool.

619 00:51:41.180 ⇒ 00:51:45.000 Samuel Roberts: Thank you both. Thank you. Thank you, Clarence, for… for… Mike.

620 00:51:45.190 ⇒ 00:51:48.110 Samuel Roberts: Not necessarily helping with the hour, but, like, giving us the…

621 00:51:48.330 ⇒ 00:51:50.679 Samuel Roberts: Yeah. It is… I thought this was good.

622 00:51:50.680 ⇒ 00:51:56.929 Clarence Stone: strategy, right? I want you guys to have all the latitude to make this project yours. Yeah. Yeah.

623 00:51:57.790 ⇒ 00:52:00.270 Pranav Narahari: Awesome. Yeah, thanks, Clarence. Thanks, Sam.

624 00:52:00.270 ⇒ 00:52:07.670 Clarence Stone: Yeah, and let me know if you want me to take another look at it anytime, like, share that, board with me.

625 00:52:07.880 ⇒ 00:52:11.920 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, I’ll definitely do that, I was gonna do that for sure. Once I can…

626 00:52:11.920 ⇒ 00:52:17.169 Clarence Stone: I’m with you, too. Like, I literally just made a board with, like, all the… all the features.

627 00:52:17.170 ⇒ 00:52:21.570 Pranav Narahari: Nice. So, like, I think everybody needs one where they can just mess around and not…

628 00:52:21.570 ⇒ 00:52:23.809 Clarence Stone: Not be worried that it’s gonna break anything.

629 00:52:23.810 ⇒ 00:52:25.010 Pranav Narahari: Yeah, totally.

630 00:52:25.010 ⇒ 00:52:27.070 Clarence Stone: Yeah, I’ll share mine with you, y’all.

631 00:52:28.030 ⇒ 00:52:28.810 Pranav Narahari: Perfect.

632 00:52:28.930 ⇒ 00:52:29.970 Pranav Narahari: Alright, guys.

633 00:52:30.680 ⇒ 00:52:31.910 Pranav Narahari: Talk soon.

634 00:52:31.910 ⇒ 00:52:32.899 Clarence Stone: Yep. Thanks, guys.

635 00:52:32.900 ⇒ 00:52:33.840 Samuel Roberts: Training. Yep.

636 00:52:33.840 ⇒ 00:52:34.390 Pranav Narahari: Yep.

637 00:52:34.730 ⇒ 00:52:35.410 Samuel Roberts: Bye.

638 00:52:35.410 ⇒ 00:52:35.980 Clarence Stone: Right.