Meeting Title: Brainforge x Interlude Project Check-in Date: 2025-09-29 Meeting participants: Uttam Kumaran, Joseph Good
WEBVTT
1 00:00:31.460 ⇒ 00:00:32.720 Joseph Good: Hey, how’s it going, man?
2 00:00:32.729 ⇒ 00:00:34.129 Uttam Kumaran: Hey, dudes, how are you?
3 00:00:34.430 ⇒ 00:00:35.650 Joseph Good: Doing well, how are you?
4 00:00:35.650 ⇒ 00:00:38.959 Uttam Kumaran: Good, thanks for, taking the call this late, I appreciate it.
5 00:00:39.350 ⇒ 00:00:42.750 Joseph Good: Dude, all good, no worries. It’s, it’s, it’s 8.30 your time, so you gotta…
6 00:00:42.750 ⇒ 00:00:50.659 Uttam Kumaran: No, it’s Monday, so I usually just, like, finally finish late, because we do all our, like, planning meetings on Monday.
7 00:00:50.780 ⇒ 00:00:53.270 Uttam Kumaran: Cause after Monday, it’s sort of hard to…
8 00:00:53.450 ⇒ 00:00:57.749 Uttam Kumaran: get time on my schedule, so I just try to, like, front-load as much as possible.
9 00:00:58.090 ⇒ 00:01:03.270 Uttam Kumaran: And then I’ll kind of just enter the… enter the darkness for the week.
10 00:01:03.950 ⇒ 00:01:06.930 Joseph Good: Totally fair. Well, I hope the Monday’s been going well so far.
11 00:01:06.930 ⇒ 00:01:19.300 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, it’s good. We’ve had some new team members join, and they’ve been doing really, really well. We’ve started on some new clients, and some of the clients that we’ve onboarded.
12 00:01:19.300 ⇒ 00:01:35.739 Uttam Kumaran: you know, last few months, including, you know, Interlude, we’ve been doing really, really well on, so it’s been… it’s been cool. I don’t know if your brother’s shared any of the stuff that we’ve been working with him on, but the automations are working, and I know he’s bringing on some new people, so we’ve been working directly with them on
13 00:01:35.890 ⇒ 00:01:38.899 Uttam Kumaran: On, automating a couple things for their process.
14 00:01:39.540 ⇒ 00:01:48.839 Joseph Good: Yeah, that’s awesome. No, he said, we’ve talked about it a few times, he hasn’t shown me, like, any of the workflows, but, he seems… he seems happy, so whatever you’re doing is…
15 00:01:48.840 ⇒ 00:01:52.749 Uttam Kumaran: Nice. How’s everything with you?
16 00:01:53.230 ⇒ 00:02:00.100 Joseph Good: Good, good, yeah, I’ve been, like, just closed another client today, which is great.
17 00:02:00.100 ⇒ 00:02:00.700 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
18 00:02:00.700 ⇒ 00:02:15.160 Joseph Good: So, just trying to keep the ball moving forward. As you know, it’s, like, early days, so you’re kind of taking what you can get and just trying to learn as you go. But yeah, you gotta… you gotta get in the ocean to, I guess, catch a bigger wave, so…
19 00:02:15.160 ⇒ 00:02:21.649 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, is it mainly, like, clay stuff, or have you changed, any of the positioning at all?
20 00:02:21.650 ⇒ 00:02:34.839 Joseph Good: Yeah, it’s still mainly, like, RevOps, and a lot of, like, Clay and HubSpot stuff, which, you know, I would love to ideally, like, move away from, but I… I need to be able to, like, actually provide other… other,
21 00:02:35.360 ⇒ 00:02:37.800 Joseph Good: services besides that, so in my…
22 00:02:37.910 ⇒ 00:02:40.920 Joseph Good: Limited free time outside of,
23 00:02:41.060 ⇒ 00:02:44.740 Joseph Good: working on these clients, I’m trying to, like, learn more of the data engineering stuff, more like the…
24 00:02:44.740 ⇒ 00:02:45.070 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
25 00:02:45.070 ⇒ 00:02:50.579 Joseph Good: context engineering stuff as well, so there’s a lot of good stuff out there, I just gotta sink my teeth into it.
26 00:02:50.580 ⇒ 00:02:56.420 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, that’s nice. Yeah, we’ve been, we’ve been doing, still, we do a fair bit of…
27 00:02:56.420 ⇒ 00:03:01.159 Joseph Good: RevOps, go-to-market, like, GTM engineering stuff, but a lot of our work is.
28 00:03:01.220 ⇒ 00:03:12.719 Uttam Kumaran: mostly a lot of agent building, and then a lot of data work. In fact, a lot of our data clients are the ones now asking us, like, hey, you’ve modeled all of our data, like, any chance you can
29 00:03:13.050 ⇒ 00:03:23.229 Uttam Kumaran: put a chatbot on it, and so we can ask some really simple questions, like in our Slack, you know, things like that is where we’re starting to see the two worlds kind of collide, you know, which has been really, really cool.
30 00:03:24.080 ⇒ 00:03:27.080 Joseph Good: Yeah, yeah, that’s, I just talked with, like, the…
31 00:03:27.490 ⇒ 00:03:32.190 Joseph Good: He does most of the data stuff at, like, Air Ops, the company that I was… I was at.
32 00:03:32.190 ⇒ 00:03:32.910 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
33 00:03:32.910 ⇒ 00:03:38.280 Joseph Good: And he was like, he’s gonna let me kind of play around in, like, their metabase and whatnot, and just, like, get…
34 00:03:38.670 ⇒ 00:03:45.210 Joseph Good: My hands dirty, so yeah, I definitely want to, like, transition more into the data and the AI stuff as well, but…
35 00:03:45.210 ⇒ 00:03:45.960 Uttam Kumaran: Nice.
36 00:03:46.600 ⇒ 00:03:47.210 Joseph Good: Yeah.
37 00:03:47.920 ⇒ 00:03:53.010 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so on our side, like, I… I… I think we’re… we’re slowly starting to…
38 00:03:53.220 ⇒ 00:04:09.789 Uttam Kumaran: kind of be open to bringing more people, but I think we’ve sort of changed a little bit of our philosophy. I texted you a little bit on that. I’m sort of interested to even hear your feedback, but I’m honestly, you know, from talking to you, and I’ve talked to the team a little bit about your background, it’s… it’s kind of interesting, because I think, you know, you not only have a lot of.
39 00:04:09.790 ⇒ 00:04:12.880 Joseph Good: experience and what we’re doing, but I think because you’re coming.
40 00:04:12.880 ⇒ 00:04:20.680 Uttam Kumaran: more from the go-to-market business side, you actually, more than a lot of… to the typical engineer, you actually understand the business use case a lot more.
41 00:04:20.870 ⇒ 00:04:36.890 Uttam Kumaran: So what we found is that typically people that come into our company, either coming in from, like, the business, or, like, the delivery side, like project managers, or they’re coming in from, like, pure engineering. But what we’ve sort of been forced to do and try to figure out is, like, how can we get,
42 00:04:37.320 ⇒ 00:04:47.889 Uttam Kumaran: how can we get people to, somehow craft, basically, like, a skill set that includes a little bit of both? Like, I don’t think we’re as interested anymore in, like.
43 00:04:47.950 ⇒ 00:04:55.469 Uttam Kumaran: bringing on people into, like, you are a AI engineer, you are a data engineer, and therefore, like, you can’t talk to the client.
44 00:04:55.530 ⇒ 00:05:03.739 Uttam Kumaran: And, oh, you’re a project manager, so you just project manage and everything goes through you. I think we’re much more interested these days in…
45 00:05:03.760 ⇒ 00:05:16.969 Uttam Kumaran: Bringing people on that want to, play a little bit in both sides, but are actually probably closer to, like, what you would think a traditional management consultant or whatever is, where there is a bit of, like.
46 00:05:17.220 ⇒ 00:05:28.530 Uttam Kumaran: sitting with a client, understanding, then you have a range of capabilities that we have as a company, and then you solve for an outcome. You don’t solve for, like, a client asks for this, I’m gonna do this. You’re gonna say.
47 00:05:28.560 ⇒ 00:05:47.650 Uttam Kumaran: what is the client actually trying to drive? Okay, they’re trying to grow revenue, they’re trying to do this, okay, like, I’m just gonna act as, like, the best internal consultant and just go, like, achieve the outcome, which for us, means, like, you have to partner with them, but you also, like, have to be kind of provocative. Like, you have to ask tough questions, and…
48 00:05:47.810 ⇒ 00:05:59.539 Uttam Kumaran: Because otherwise, like, if we don’t achieve what we’re there to do, we’re gonna get… we’re gonna get fired. And so, it’s important that we don’t just play the same game as they are. We’re typically being brought in because there’s a problem.
49 00:05:59.710 ⇒ 00:06:00.680 Uttam Kumaran: You know…
50 00:06:00.990 ⇒ 00:06:10.040 Uttam Kumaran: And so that’s why I’m kind of, like, interested in bringing on people who can kind of stretch in a couple different ways. I think, for you, I think it’s really interesting to hear, like, your background.
51 00:06:10.320 ⇒ 00:06:11.659 Uttam Kumaran: in, sort of.
52 00:06:12.010 ⇒ 00:06:19.039 Uttam Kumaran: You know, in go-to-market engineering, but it also… you’re interested in doing data work, but then also, it’s clear that you can also probably…
53 00:06:19.390 ⇒ 00:06:33.849 Uttam Kumaran: project manage an entire small project, you know, if I, like, if there’s, like, one engineer with you or somebody. So, like, is… would that… would something like that be, like, interesting, or do you think, like, something that’s much more strict in, like, one role be…
54 00:06:34.560 ⇒ 00:06:36.640 Uttam Kumaran: Like, what you’d be interested in.
55 00:06:37.310 ⇒ 00:06:47.210 Joseph Good: Yeah, yeah, that’s a good question. And that’s… that’s, like, helpful context in terms of, like, how you’re… you’re trying to move the org forward as a whole. I guess just to…
56 00:06:47.590 ⇒ 00:06:51.340 Joseph Good: To learn a little bit more in terms of, like, what that, like.
57 00:06:51.510 ⇒ 00:06:58.439 Joseph Good: multidisciplinary role would look like. Like, do you have any more, details on, like, what you’re thinking for that?
58 00:06:58.440 ⇒ 00:07:02.979 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, so, I mean, there’s kind of two things. So, one is, like, I think we…
59 00:07:03.290 ⇒ 00:07:05.280 Joseph Good: We roughly have, like…
60 00:07:05.660 ⇒ 00:07:15.340 Uttam Kumaran: I would say we align closer to, like, we have kind of managers, and we have, like, makers, meaning we have people that are, like, project managers. Their job is really primarily on, like.
61 00:07:15.470 ⇒ 00:07:32.399 Uttam Kumaran: we run, like, on one-week sprints, it’s making sure that everybody’s set up, things that communicate to the client, and you just have a really good idea of, like, what we’re trying to achieve. You also have, like, the actual engineers. These are… we have data engineers, we have product analysts, we have,
62 00:07:32.690 ⇒ 00:07:41.920 Uttam Kumaran: you know, AI engineers, but regardless, it’s sort of, like, solving the problem. That can be hacky, that can be hacky to start, it can be…
63 00:07:41.940 ⇒ 00:07:53.009 Uttam Kumaran: get something more fixed. It could be data, it could be AI, but we come in and we try to solve for, you know, outcomes. And so, for us, like, what I think a lot about is.
64 00:07:53.050 ⇒ 00:08:03.290 Uttam Kumaran: you know, we run typically, like, one-week sprints, we have everything ticketed, but, like, some of the work involved, like, okay, for example, we have a client that’s like, I wanna…
65 00:08:03.330 ⇒ 00:08:19.379 Uttam Kumaran: move a lot of our, like, to talk about something that may be closer to your world. Okay, we have a bunch of clients, we need to enrich them, because I want to get a sense of who… what segments all of our customers are selling to, and how we can build, like, better lookalike audiences. Okay, so we have to set a play.
66 00:08:19.380 ⇒ 00:08:34.380 Uttam Kumaran: we need to probably get Apollo, or we need to understand, do they already have enrichment stuff? So there’s, like, sort of, like, a solution architect part, where you’re, like, okay, deciding on all the tools that need to get used. You’re also here to, like, kind of set up the project managers to say, like, great, here’s a timeline.
67 00:08:34.380 ⇒ 00:08:49.599 Uttam Kumaran: it’s probably how long it’s gonna take, and probably by next Wednesday, I can demo something. And then it’s like, okay, who’s gonna actually do it? And so we’re trying to run close, like, almost leaner teams of, like, more multidisciplinary people, where maybe it’s, like, a project manager.
68 00:08:49.600 ⇒ 00:09:06.459 Uttam Kumaran: like, a solution architect who maybe is on multiple projects, and an engineer is also on multiple projects. That way, the project manager manages, like, all comms, basically. Okay, when is a demo meeting happening? What is… what are we doing next week? What are we doing this week? Okay, there’s a delay, how do I communicate?
69 00:09:06.460 ⇒ 00:09:24.230 Uttam Kumaran: So that’s all kind of on them, but then the engineer or the solutions architect also run the demos, basically. So typically, you would have these teams that would be, like, 5 people. You can collapse, can have 3 more multidisciplinary people. The kind of… okay, you’re like, okay, what’s the catch? Is that those people are very hard to find.
70 00:09:24.250 ⇒ 00:09:26.009 Uttam Kumaran: And we basically have to…
71 00:09:26.070 ⇒ 00:09:45.709 Uttam Kumaran: somewhat create those people, because you don’t often get people… get engineers that can be comfortable in front of a client and really, you know, explain what they did and why. Typically, you find this in, like, people that have done freelancing for a long time. You also typically can’t get project managers who can be in the weeds and actually execute on work.
72 00:09:45.980 ⇒ 00:09:48.970 Uttam Kumaran: And so part of it is, like, we want to build
73 00:09:49.200 ⇒ 00:10:04.159 Uttam Kumaran: a group of people that can do that. You know, and also, like, I think, you know, to make it worth their while, we want to start to basically do comp, almost, like, sort of incentivized towards having less people, and having everybody on the delivery team get
74 00:10:04.160 ⇒ 00:10:14.319 Uttam Kumaran: you know, extra, like, variable pay based on things like renewal rates, things on, upsell rates. Like, we want everybody to…
75 00:10:14.670 ⇒ 00:10:15.410 Uttam Kumaran: like…
76 00:10:15.650 ⇒ 00:10:30.410 Uttam Kumaran: get a piece of that, basically, which is not very common in agency world. Like, typically you get, like, there’s, like, company-wide bonuses, but rarely is there, like, a, hey, I’m on this team, and it renewed, so everybody’s getting a bump, or, like,
77 00:10:30.470 ⇒ 00:10:41.810 Uttam Kumaran: you know, things like that is where we’re trying to push the bar a little bit further. Like, what we’ve found, though, is just very hard. Like, in all of our hiring, we’ve always found people that are just, like.
78 00:10:42.270 ⇒ 00:11:00.719 Uttam Kumaran: I wear this hat, and they come in, and I don’t think it’s necessarily their fault, I think it can be… it’s just a fault of the market, where they’ve been asked to do, like, one thing for quite a long time in their career, and then they come in my company, they just try to do the one thing, and…
79 00:11:00.760 ⇒ 00:11:18.010 Uttam Kumaran: like, at my company, you have to do multiple… you have to wear multiple hats, because I want to hire people that can solve problems for clients, whether you know what it is today or not, like, we have the resources in the company, so we’re just trying to find, like, resourceful, like, high agency folks, is, like, one way of putting it.
80 00:11:19.250 ⇒ 00:11:32.870 Uttam Kumaran: And so, kind of, like, I think we’ve carved out that there’s, like, sort of, again, like, solution architect, tech leads. These are people that sort of lead a capability, right? A capability might be, like, N8M. So we have someone that all they do
81 00:11:32.950 ⇒ 00:11:49.130 Uttam Kumaran: for a bunch of clients, it’s just lead N8N projects, where they just know how to architect it, but they don’t necessarily, like, do the hounds on the ground execution. Then there are, like, almost, like, junior or mid-level engineers that handle a lot of that. Everybody is familiar with who the client is, meets with the client.
82 00:11:49.130 ⇒ 00:11:57.189 Uttam Kumaran: And there’s a lot less separation of roles, there’s just a lot less people involved. So there’s… it’s just very, very high ownership kind of mentality.
83 00:11:57.330 ⇒ 00:12:08.929 Uttam Kumaran: You know, so that’s, like, kind of how we’re trying to architect a little bit of the company moving forward, versus just having, like, super distinct roles, like, in a traditional consultancy, I think.
84 00:12:09.350 ⇒ 00:12:13.670 Joseph Good: Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah, I think, like, that…
85 00:12:14.550 ⇒ 00:12:21.869 Joseph Good: I think it aligns, like, well with what I’m trying to learn right now, which is, like, for sure, as I’m…
86 00:12:21.870 ⇒ 00:12:38.689 Joseph Good: dealing with even some of my own clients, like, I’m learning on the fly, like, okay, how do I manage clients’ expectations? And also, even to your point earlier today, like, the, we were working through some HubSpot stuff, and they were solving for, like, just how to build the HubSpot workflow, as opposed to kind of, like, what the…
87 00:12:38.690 ⇒ 00:12:45.469 Joseph Good: business outcome, like, actually that was that we needed to achieve, so it was, like, needing to kind of steer them back.
88 00:12:45.470 ⇒ 00:12:46.130 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
89 00:12:46.340 ⇒ 00:12:48.210 Joseph Good: to that.
90 00:12:48.210 ⇒ 00:12:58.139 Uttam Kumaran: And you’re sort of building for the short term and the long term at the same time. But what you’ll find is that just, like, adding more people adds more hoops to jump through, and…
91 00:12:58.240 ⇒ 00:13:09.709 Uttam Kumaran: even if we were to build the best thing, there’s still a good… there’s still a chance that we get fired from a client if we don’t communicate. So, communication has to be number one. There’s gonna be no one at the company
92 00:13:09.940 ⇒ 00:13:14.039 Uttam Kumaran: That has a hard time, like, communicating, which is not a typical expectation of, like.
93 00:13:14.280 ⇒ 00:13:27.550 Uttam Kumaran: engineers on clients. Like, typically it’s like, oh, wait for the project manager, and I just find that, like, okay, what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna bear the brunt of just trying to recruit and spend more time in the recruiting process to get people that are actually, like.
94 00:13:27.930 ⇒ 00:13:32.150 Uttam Kumaran: 5, 10, 15x better, and can actually own
95 00:13:32.280 ⇒ 00:13:37.200 Uttam Kumaran: And then my job is to kind of create the incentive structure to keep those people.
96 00:13:37.310 ⇒ 00:13:46.839 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and ideally have… our KPI is like, okay, can we keep a high revenue-to-employee ratio, and then can I also have everybody
97 00:13:47.010 ⇒ 00:13:53.650 Uttam Kumaran: win… when the company wins. You know, like, for example, on our delivery side, we’re gonna start to…
98 00:13:53.740 ⇒ 00:14:09.240 Uttam Kumaran: give variable comp based on, like, if clients renew, if there’s client upsell, the speed at which we onboard existing clients. We’re also gonna do delivery source opportunities, so, like, if you’re on a client and
99 00:14:09.280 ⇒ 00:14:19.829 Uttam Kumaran: you’re like… you… again, our job is to go into clients, just meet everyone and become friends with everyone, and if you find an opportunity and you bring it to the table, there’s… there’s gonna be money there as well. So…
100 00:14:20.010 ⇒ 00:14:31.340 Uttam Kumaran: In an agency, there’s just money, like, sitting everywhere, and so it’s actually, how do I turn our delivery people also into, like, selling for the company versus, like, okay, everything has to go through an account executive.
101 00:14:31.550 ⇒ 00:14:35.510 Uttam Kumaran: blah blah blah, like, we’re all representatives of the company, you know, so…
102 00:14:35.610 ⇒ 00:14:42.029 Uttam Kumaran: Those are some of the things we’re, like, thinking about where… especially because we use a lot of AI, we can actually…
103 00:14:42.160 ⇒ 00:14:52.310 Uttam Kumaran: streamline and give people, who typically I don’t think would get a lot of limelight in front of the company, in front of our clients, like, a lot more ownership of projects.
104 00:14:52.440 ⇒ 00:14:55.820 Uttam Kumaran: you know, that’s sort of what we’re thinking about.
105 00:14:56.350 ⇒ 00:15:00.660 Joseph Good: Yeah, for sure. No, that all makes sense. I think, like, I…
106 00:15:00.890 ⇒ 00:15:13.369 Joseph Good: Definitely have a lot to learn, like, really across the stack. A, just, like, building and actually getting in the weeds, but also, like, yeah, managing a project and economy with clients and whatnot.
107 00:15:13.480 ⇒ 00:15:14.650 Joseph Good: So…
108 00:15:15.070 ⇒ 00:15:22.600 Joseph Good: Yeah, I mean, I’m not sure what you had in mind in terms of, like, next steps or whatnot. I think, like, my…
109 00:15:23.010 ⇒ 00:15:25.150 Joseph Good: Biggest thing is just the…
110 00:15:25.530 ⇒ 00:15:32.570 Joseph Good: like, really what I’m open to get out of, of working with anyone is the ability to kind of get in the weeds and, like, really learn the stuff.
111 00:15:32.570 ⇒ 00:15:33.330 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
112 00:15:33.330 ⇒ 00:15:38.140 Joseph Good: Ideally, like… just to be transparent, I… I wouldn’t…
113 00:15:38.140 ⇒ 00:15:56.740 Joseph Good: want to sit, like, just in a strictly project management role. Yeah. Like, I would want to be able to flex into, like, actually building and, you know, creating the workflows and whatnot, and getting my hands dirty. I’m sure, like, in tandem with more experienced folks. And that doesn’t even need to be, like.
114 00:15:56.740 ⇒ 00:16:01.979 Joseph Good: me staffed as, like, the sole engineer or whatnot on a client, even if I can just kind of, like.
115 00:16:02.000 ⇒ 00:16:15.310 Joseph Good: grab 30 or whatnot with, like, the engineer who’s building, or even just, like, tinker around, on my own. But, yeah, I mean, it sounds like, from what you’re saying, that’s… the culture is already, like, hey, let’s… let’s all kind of…
116 00:16:15.600 ⇒ 00:16:24.289 Joseph Good: dive in and figure out how we can, like, solve for the business outcome as fast as possible. So, yeah. Anyways, that’s kind of where I’m coming from.
117 00:16:24.290 ⇒ 00:16:28.270 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, and I actually… I think that’s great. The only reason I’m, like.
118 00:16:28.660 ⇒ 00:16:43.149 Uttam Kumaran: I would pitch you on considering is that, like, I could see, if you were… if you were on a project, it was just you and one of our project managers, I think you guys would crush it, because as an… like, as… if you were to be staffed as the engineer, you have a lot of…
119 00:16:43.150 ⇒ 00:16:53.530 Uttam Kumaran: chops already on communication, how to, like, pitch your idea, how to take ownership of the feedback and action items, right? It’s just boosted in a situation like ours, because we have
120 00:16:53.970 ⇒ 00:17:06.680 Uttam Kumaran: all the scaffolding, but it’s almost like you act as a, like, individual, like, builder within, you know, our scheme, and that’s, like, kind of more of what we’re looking for, versus, like.
121 00:17:06.910 ⇒ 00:17:16.660 Uttam Kumaran: typically these big IT projects, like, you have, like, 10 people that are… each of them are doing a small role, and it’s, like, not only really hard for a company like ours to make money, but…
122 00:17:16.900 ⇒ 00:17:22.709 Uttam Kumaran: It’s just so many people, and we don’t achieve the objectives, like, we’re just like every other agency.
123 00:17:22.839 ⇒ 00:17:35.150 Uttam Kumaran: And so, for me, it’s like, it’s important to have people that can, in addition to building the thing, can speak to the tools, and can adapt to the next tool, so that when we go start to pitch the next thing.
124 00:17:35.610 ⇒ 00:17:48.940 Uttam Kumaran: you know, we can… we can become authority figures there. So, I think in terms of… in terms of, like, what I’m thinking, we have a couple… we have a bunch of existing AI projects, we also have a bunch of existing data projects,
125 00:17:49.390 ⇒ 00:18:04.960 Uttam Kumaran: I think, like, a couple easy things we could even… we can do, and… and I want to introduce you to a few people. A couple easy things that we can do is we… some of the folks on our team, our engineers, have been doing a lot of work on a few clients for quite a while. I think they would probably…
126 00:18:05.070 ⇒ 00:18:15.040 Uttam Kumaran: either be interested in moving, like, moving to another client, or, I think they have some work that is pretty easy to take on. Like, I’ll sort of leave it to…
127 00:18:15.440 ⇒ 00:18:25.369 Uttam Kumaran: our delivery team to kind of let me know, like, where we need more resources, but I think it wouldn’t be, like, as stressful as you coming on to a brand new client.
128 00:18:25.390 ⇒ 00:18:40.619 Uttam Kumaran: And then, like, having to figure it all out. I think there’s some opportunity on existing clients where there’s some slack, and we already have the relationship. I think that could be a good place to start. I also think I want you to work really, really closely with our existing team, because
129 00:18:40.930 ⇒ 00:18:58.499 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t know, I feel like you’re really hungry to learn about how we build a lot of things across data and AI. And funny enough, like, a lot of our AI team, they’re starting to learn a lot of data stuff, because a lot of their work is moving data around, either into Supabase, or out into Clay, or…
130 00:18:58.500 ⇒ 00:19:12.859 Uttam Kumaran: through NAN, or through something else, and they’re also helping build some of the existing clients they work on. In order to measure some of their work, they have to build a dashboard, and so they’re starting to do a lot of data work. So, I actually think there’s really simple
131 00:19:13.030 ⇒ 00:19:24.139 Uttam Kumaran: Data analysis, data modeling, things that you could easily take on, which would get you in the weeds in sort of that new world, but also wouldn’t be, like, super high stakes.
132 00:19:24.260 ⇒ 00:19:29.540 Uttam Kumaran: We also do have a good amount of, like, high-stakes data and AI work.
133 00:19:29.540 ⇒ 00:19:35.139 Uttam Kumaran: Which, again, that would be the hope, is that you can kind of, like, move towards that over time.
134 00:19:35.140 ⇒ 00:19:49.689 Uttam Kumaran: I think in terms of, like, next steps, I know I probably said I would do this last time, but I did talk to Sam on my team today, and I told him I would make the intro, so I’d love to make an intro to Sam. He leads a lot of our AI development
135 00:19:49.980 ⇒ 00:19:55.060 Uttam Kumaran: And it’s sort of our, like, solution architect on, like, AI and automations. Comes from, like, a full stack.
136 00:19:55.300 ⇒ 00:20:08.890 Uttam Kumaran: background, like he was a CTO before, really, really smart, really, really kind dude. Would love for you to sort of chat with him. And then, yeah, would love to also introduce you to, Justin on our delivery team.
137 00:20:09.020 ⇒ 00:20:26.780 Uttam Kumaran: He would be someone that you’d squarely be working with on, like, any of our clients, basically, but he leads delivery, just so you get to meet a couple more, you know, faces in the company. And then I know last time you mentioned you… you had availability, but at least if you’re available for, like.
138 00:20:26.960 ⇒ 00:20:32.419 Uttam Kumaran: 10 to 20 hours a week, like, that’s probably something that we could work with to start to get you.
139 00:20:32.420 ⇒ 00:20:35.599 Joseph Good: At least involved in one project, and kind of see if we…
140 00:20:35.600 ⇒ 00:20:37.070 Uttam Kumaran: We all mesh together.
141 00:20:38.100 ⇒ 00:20:44.359 Joseph Good: Yeah, yeah, for sure, that sounds great. Yeah, in terms of availability, I think that should be good, and then I think that, like.
142 00:20:44.780 ⇒ 00:20:59.460 Joseph Good: structure of ramping, makes sense in terms of, like, starting to help out on folks who there’s already a pre-existing relationship with, and maybe it’s more like, yeah, just, like, maintaining that, and then moving on to maybe higher stakes projects.
143 00:20:59.460 ⇒ 00:21:00.280 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah.
144 00:21:00.430 ⇒ 00:21:11.640 Uttam Kumaran: And definitely, we’ll have more conversations, so it won’t be just, like, this is the last time we talk. This will all get on paper, and, like, we’ll plan out a lot. I just think we’ve had a lot of success with people from your background that have
145 00:21:12.250 ⇒ 00:21:13.880 Uttam Kumaran: Either gone out and…
146 00:21:14.750 ⇒ 00:21:23.239 Uttam Kumaran: built their own sort of freelancer motive, or are starting to do that, and I think my job will be, like, how does Brainport compete with you going and do that on your own?
147 00:21:23.320 ⇒ 00:21:36.219 Uttam Kumaran: You know, and so that’s certainly top of mind for me. It’s like, how do I make the opportunities that we can get you, and the rate at which you can learn, and the leverage that you have at logos that would be hard to get into yourself?
148 00:21:36.730 ⇒ 00:21:52.450 Uttam Kumaran: like, how can we provide that? So, that’s definitely something that I’m… I want to put out there, candidly, like, I know that’s what I’m competing with, and that’s what Brainforge is, like, competing with your time for, so that’s… that’s something that, like, I… I think we… we have, and we’re… we’re growing into.
149 00:21:52.600 ⇒ 00:22:09.639 Uttam Kumaran: And, you know, I think in terms of the automation world, you’ll also get a lot of, ability to see how we’re, like, pitching, and pitching the capabilities, how we’re doing marketing across a lot of this, events, and things like that. So I think also, if you’re…
150 00:22:10.010 ⇒ 00:22:12.190 Uttam Kumaran: Sort of ultimate interest is to go
151 00:22:12.300 ⇒ 00:22:16.509 Uttam Kumaran: like, run a company like Brainforge, or do your own thing, I don’t think there’s another…
152 00:22:16.620 ⇒ 00:22:27.569 Uttam Kumaran: I don’t think there’s a better, more, safe place to go learn how to do that on someone else’s dime. But of course, like, for everybody that works with us, we want them to stay as long as they…
153 00:22:27.740 ⇒ 00:22:30.330 Uttam Kumaran: They feel comfortable as well, so, yeah.
154 00:22:30.330 ⇒ 00:22:39.559 Joseph Good: Yeah. No, for sure, I… I agree with everything, with everything there. But, yeah, I mean, in terms of next steps, and chatting with Sam, and…
155 00:22:40.010 ⇒ 00:22:47.149 Joseph Good: Justin and your team, you know, that all sounds good. I’m, yeah, happy to chat with them whenever you’re ready to make an intro.
156 00:22:47.150 ⇒ 00:22:57.750 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, let me… so I’ll send an email right after this, I’ll CC you, and I’ll CC Sam, Rico on my team, and Justin, and then I think Sam should have some time tomorrow.
157 00:22:57.950 ⇒ 00:23:09.489 Uttam Kumaran: And then I’ll see what Justin has availability for. I’ll brief them a little bit tomorrow, especially Justin, on, like, where I think you could fit in.
158 00:23:09.550 ⇒ 00:23:20.180 Uttam Kumaran: The team is also sort of, deciding on, like, a little bit of a new interview process, something that’s, like, more case-focused, versus, like.
159 00:23:20.180 ⇒ 00:23:36.190 Uttam Kumaran: When I started the company, it used to be very just, like, all vibes, basically. And that’s how I hire, but it’s not the best way, and also, there’s a lot of other people in the company, so usually I’m, like, the first person, and then I’m usually the last person, so,
160 00:23:36.290 ⇒ 00:23:52.929 Uttam Kumaran: I think they’ll sort of… I think we’ll… they’ll kind of walk you through what we’re hoping for, but again, like, I think if you’re interested in sort of moving from the AI automation world into more data… more strict data, and still work on, like, pretty, pretty interesting use cases, like.
161 00:23:53.240 ⇒ 00:23:55.830 Uttam Kumaran: We’ve sort of checked those boxes, so,
162 00:23:56.150 ⇒ 00:24:06.959 Uttam Kumaran: And even since, like, we first talked, we’ve just been growing, which has been really, really good and really, really tough, so, yeah.
163 00:24:07.610 ⇒ 00:24:09.039 Joseph Good: Good problems to have, I’m sure.
164 00:24:09.040 ⇒ 00:24:12.940 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, yeah, different pro- just different problems.
165 00:24:12.940 ⇒ 00:24:25.300 Joseph Good: Yeah, fair enough. Well, great, yeah, and yeah, I mean, any context you have on what would be helpful or whatnot to, you know, come to the table, obviously want to be prepared, so…
166 00:24:25.300 ⇒ 00:24:31.949 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, let me… maybe I’ll just tell you about both of them. So, you know, Sam has an interesting background. He actually, used to…
167 00:24:32.110 ⇒ 00:24:38.130 Uttam Kumaran: run, a hair care company, like, maybe 10 years ago, and then…
168 00:24:38.260 ⇒ 00:24:50.450 Uttam Kumaran: left that, and then was a CTO of a startup for a while. Has a long background in UI, UX, front-end, you know, app development.
169 00:24:50.720 ⇒ 00:25:06.840 Uttam Kumaran: again, an interesting thing about our company is there’s a lot of, sort of, mixed bag of people that have all… we’re both engineering stuff for clients and engineering, like, how our company runs, and so he has a lot of ideas about how we can use AI in the business, in addition to
170 00:25:07.510 ⇒ 00:25:15.050 Uttam Kumaran: has a ton of context in the types of things we’re building for clients, so don’t hold back on, like, the types of AI work that we’re doing, the types of
171 00:25:15.380 ⇒ 00:25:34.679 Uttam Kumaran: data work that we’re doing, and what it’s like to work with me, you know, stuff like that. And he has context on even some of the future clients that are coming on, so can tell you all about the types of AI work beyond, you know, clay-type stuff that we’re doing. And then Justin,
172 00:25:35.150 ⇒ 00:25:40.730 Uttam Kumaran: Justin’s actually an ex-Texas A&M football player. Yeah, and…
173 00:25:40.730 ⇒ 00:25:41.730 Joseph Good: Gotta be a beast, then.
174 00:25:41.730 ⇒ 00:25:46.940 Uttam Kumaran: Yeah, really, really great guy. Got into,
175 00:25:47.730 ⇒ 00:25:53.880 Uttam Kumaran: Like, someone he used to… he coached football for a while after that, and then someone he used to… he worked with.
176 00:25:54.020 ⇒ 00:26:04.859 Uttam Kumaran: was in consulting, and then he… one of his former mentors called them, got a job, and sort of got into, you know, technical project management. And then at his last company.
177 00:26:05.240 ⇒ 00:26:09.820 Uttam Kumaran: He was running a… Sort of a portfolio of a couple hundred clients.
178 00:26:09.840 ⇒ 00:26:25.990 Uttam Kumaran: And then recently came to start working with us, maybe about a month ago, actually. And he’s actually here, in Richmond, Texas, outside of Houston. So, yeah, he’s really, sophisticated on project management. So, like, executing projects end-to-end.
179 00:26:26.000 ⇒ 00:26:38.960 Uttam Kumaran: How do we actually make sure a client is happy, but do that in a predictable way? So he can talk to you about, like, the current state and, like, future state of, like, how we basically deliver. So he runs our delivery.
180 00:26:38.960 ⇒ 00:26:46.030 Uttam Kumaran: organization. So you can talk to you all about, like, what we’re… what we’re… what our conversation’s about, which is just, like.
181 00:26:46.040 ⇒ 00:26:48.849 Uttam Kumaran: How we’re thinking about people,
182 00:26:49.090 ⇒ 00:26:56.879 Uttam Kumaran: Acting as both engineers, and sort of, like, managing their own stuff, and the role of the project manager, and how he sees it.
183 00:26:56.910 ⇒ 00:27:12.329 Uttam Kumaran: I think he’d be a good, great person to talk about, like, how we architect scope, and how we actually make sure to deliver. You know, and these are increasingly larger and more complex projects, so we’re throwing a lot his way, and he’s also recently started, so a good person just to…
184 00:27:12.410 ⇒ 00:27:15.579 Uttam Kumaran: Just to grow about, about delivery.
185 00:27:15.920 ⇒ 00:27:22.779 Joseph Good: Yeah, that’s awesome. Great, yeah, I mean, I’m stoked to chat with both of them, and…
186 00:27:22.880 ⇒ 00:27:33.880 Joseph Good: yeah, learn a little bit more, and then also, you know, share a little bit more about myself and whatnot, and see if it would be a good fit. But, yeah, man, overall, I’m hyped, so hopefully we can work something out.
187 00:27:34.390 ⇒ 00:27:39.449 Uttam Kumaran: Cool, perfect. Okay, let me shoot that email right now, and then, yeah, just text me if I can answer any of the questions.
188 00:27:39.560 ⇒ 00:27:40.940 Joseph Good: Cool, man, appreciate it.
189 00:27:40.940 ⇒ 00:27:42.890 Uttam Kumaran: Okay. Thanks, dude. Talk to you soon.